LED Lights

Dan Brockett · October 18th, 2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Andrewski

Thanks Dan. As for light meter readings, I'll take some next week and post as I need to get my meter which is in another city. CRI will be around 80 to 85 based on the LEDs we're using which is about as good as you can get for affordable 5mm and daylight white at this time. Ironically, you can find tungsten 5mm LEDs with better CRI but most people want daylight so that's what we needed to get.

CRI of 5mm LEDs depends upon a couple of factors from what I can tell--beam angle and color temperature influence the CRI you can have quite a bit. We started this project wanting to find a 20 to 30 degree beam LED so you'd have an instrument with super throw--really concentrated but a relatively small beam. One after another though, they all looked terrible. You'd get a halo around the beam that had a green or yellow tinge to it. The only way to minimize that effect if you wanted to use that beam angle was to go to 8000K to 9000K LEDs. The efficiency goes up in that range too and you get more lumen output.

While it may make a lot of sense, I didn't want to spend all my time explaining to people why I wasn't using 5600K ones so we skipped using those and went to a 60 degree LED. Less throw, but you can use 5600K LEDs and not have the halo and the beam is wider anyway so you can cover a larger area with the fixture. When I make a future on-camera smaller panel though we may have a 8000K version on that because it can make sense to have a sharp beam that can cut through things really well and be as efficient as possible for a small light.

Sounds very promising, please give us a heads-up as we get closer to availability, I will definitey be interested in one or two.

Dan

Bill Davis · October 18th, 2008, 03:37 PM

Hi Richard,

I'm interested as well, but save a couple of the 3200k units for me. My largest retail client just completed re-lighting their 1000 plus stores using high-efficiency fluorescents that put out light at 3100 degrees kelvin. (I think it's all about energy costs!)

It's surprised me quite a bit at how warm the light was, but it's really sweet to be able to use all my tungsten gear for highlights!!!

So don't let all the tungsten LED units go away without letting me know!

Take care.

Alex Raskin · October 18th, 2008, 03:49 PM

Christopher - what's that Officemax sheet part number or link, please?

Richard Andrewski · October 18th, 2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Witz

Richard.... I'll take 4!

also... have you ever considered a fresnelish plastic sheet that would slide in front of the panel to focus the beam narrower? I picked up a sheet at officemax that is meant for overhead projectors. Also have one that is meant to be stuck on the rear window of a rv or van to give a wide view of behind the vehicle... this one widens the beam. These sheets are only about $10! and can be cut down to size. They appear to be very color neutral.

Keep up the good work! Your 150 daylight Fresnel's have been a fantastic addition to my kit!

So, you actually used those on your existing LED panel and it really has that effect? I have considered those before but never really thought they would do anything. Does sound very interesting--particularly since we have an accessory slide on the front of the panel...

Richard Andrewski · October 18th, 2008, 06:37 PM

One person sent me a huge list of questions so I thought I would use it to start a FAQ. I'm sure many will have these questions so it may help some.

1) What is the quality and output of the LED lights? Is it as good as or better than the Lowel gear I currently use?

Photometrics to be posted soon. As for questions about comparisons to specific lighting gear I don’t have enough data to be able to tell at this time. In general I would compare it to a 600w Fresnel somewhere in between narrow and wide beam but probably closer to the wide beam setting. When we get the photometric data, that will confirm it.

2) For interviews and small location use, would I be better off with fluorescent lights? Or are your new LEDs capable of excelling in that context? (I'm a bit reluctant to go with fluorescents because of bulb fragility).

LEDs and fluorescents both have their place for sure. Some think that LEDs will replace fluorescent, HMI and tungsten but in my opinion that is a long ways off—if for no other reason than from a cost standpoint.

I view LEDs as usable in specific instances where light can be well controlled and also where power availability is at a premium. For instance, such a panel would be great for filming subjects in a car at night. Or how about a walking interview down a busy sidewalk at night. Other uses would be the person taking video in a cave or out in the wilds of Africa at night filming animals. Notice I said “night” in all those instances. Such a light would be quickly overpowered by real daylight and even fluorescent softlights with their inherent falloff have difficulties. We have people tell us all the time they are able to use fluorescents such as a 4x55w or a 6x55w in a room where daylight is streaming in but I also know there are such situations where it doesn’t work too—particularly if you were actually outside during the day on all but the most overcast of days. That’s what the CDM 150 and all such fixtures in HMI class are for—competing with daylight with their superior throw and projection ability. Every tool has its place in the kit and the proper place to use it. None of them are good everywhere.

3) How many hours are your LEDs rated?

The rating is 50,000 hours. The warranty period is 1 year.

4) Do your LED lights suffer from a green tint like the Flolight LEDs? If so, what workarounds do you suggest?

No, they were chosen based on their CRI which is in the 80 to 85 range. Anytime you see a green bias like that its simply a CRI issue. Daylight white LEDs are some of the hardest to get in a good CRI. Go to 8000K or 3200K and it’s less trouble to get a superior CRI. Daylight 5600K 5mm LEDs though, because of the way “white” is implemented with 5mm LEDs are particularly tough to get right without going to a super expensive solution or a 1W to 5W type LED configuration. We do have planned a multi-1W LED panel solution and I think that will have its own uses and market as well.

5). What is the beam angle of the LEDs?

60 degrees. We experimented with the 15 to 30 degree range but found the CRI to be terrible for real daylight LEDs so we dropped back to the first suitable range where CRI came back to being usable. A 15 to 30 degree 5mm LED would be great for a small on camera light but you’d need to go to 8000K to get a really good CRI. What you get in return is about the best lumen output you can get from 5mm LEDs and great throw but a relatively small beam. We even tried some 45 degree LEDs but they still had the CRI issues. Otherwise, the 60 degree 5mm LEDs are about where I consider them to become useful. That is, until someone makes a better quality 5mm narrow beam angle LED in a price range that’s makes them useful.

6) Will your LED lights mix well with daylight and other light sources? For example, if I gel my Lowel lights to daylight? Or if I use LED lights from other companies, such as an on-camera light for an eye-light or front fill?

So far in my tests, I think these LEDs do mix well with daylight or some other fluorescents or HMI we have tried. I don’t have the facility to test against other products like the Lowels. As I said earlier though, I think these things excel in use by themselves in particular instances where nothing else would work. I think flos are particularly still a great choice for mixing with tungsten or HMI when you’re doing work in normal settings.

7) Will you be including gels for 3200K, color wash FX, and diffusion?

Not at this time. Otherwise it's best to just get the tungsten version if thats what you need. The reason being you'll lose less light than with gelling. I think the best accessory in that area would be a full CTO filter plastic panel that can slide into the accessory frame. Someone also mentioned that the plastic “fresnel” type panels used on overhead projectors work very well for focusing the beam of an LED type fixture and are available in wide and narrow so a couple of those panels would make a great future accessory as we can find them and make them available.

8) How do gels attach?

Gels could attach to the barndoors with clips as many do today. No gel frame at this time. We do have an accessory slide in where the barndoors go. This is just a channel with adequate room for various kinds of modifier panels can go if you take out the barndoors.

9) What does "slideout barn door" mean? How does that work?

As mentioned in the previous example, the barndoors simply slide into the accessory channel and lock into place with a spring loaded lock similar to the way barndoors lock into a Fresnel accessory holder. Having something else in there at the same time is not possible though and you would need to slide the barndoors out to be able to use some kind of light diffusion or modification panel or filter.

10) Will you include reflective attachments for the barn doors similar to Flolight's LED fixtures?

Yes, we’ll use reflective intensifiers attached with Velcro.

11) What batteries will work with the lights? Voltage range? What do you recommend?

I recommend something in the 150WH range in AB or V mount types which are normally around 14V to 15V or so. I haven’t done the tests yet with various kinds but will be by end of October.

12) Can I hook up batteries or battery belts without requiring the optional adapter plates?

Yes, the power input on the back of the unit from our enclosed power supply is a 4 pin XLR male. Thus, if you have a power accessory with a 4 pin XLR female on a cable, you could attach to that power connector and replace the power supply with whatever it is you have. I recommend using only voltages in the range of 12v to 15V DC though.

13). What is the power consumption?

About 50 watts at 12VDC.

14) Do you sell stands for them? What do you recommend and how much do they cost?

Yes we have stands on the site—5 different models from small to heavy duty C-Stand. Something like our CL-LS3 stand is very small and lightweight and a good pairing with this fixture.

15) Will you offer cases for a kit of two, three or four?

The only case we offer at this time is the free one for just one unit. I have other cases, but they are very large and not meant specifically for this fixture. We’ll see what demand there is for multi-cases and make one available as that becomes more clear.

16) Will you offer an extra discount when purchasing multiple lights?

No other discounts at this time. We are already a manufacturer direct pricing model and heavily discounted.

17) Will the lights actually ship in December, or not until next year?

Hopefully by December if no unforeseen delays come into play.

18) Will there be any way to use remote dimming control or DMX control with these lights?

No DMX capability at this time.

Alex Raskin · October 18th, 2008, 07:21 PM

Is

this a comparable light?

(I realize that one is for 220V, but how does it compare otherwise?)

Richard Andrewski · October 18th, 2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

Is

this a comparable light?

(I realize that one is for 220V, but how does it compare otherwise?)

That's the Lishuai 500 panel Flolights sells. The "Cinelight" guy is in Romania and is just another dealer for that panel. Apparently he only sells it in 220v version. By the time you ship it here it's almost the same price as Flolights sells theirs for.

Richard Andrewski · October 18th, 2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Davis

So don't let all the tungsten LED units go away without letting me know!

Understood!

Christopher Witz · October 19th, 2008, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

Christopher - what's that Officemax sheet part number or link, please?

this place has been good to me.....

Buy Fresnel lens,Fresnel Lenses,Fresnel lense

they have both mag and wide.... make your beam narrow or spread it wider.

also... check out their polorizer sheets... put these on lights and an optical grade pl on your camera and things really get interesting.... vibrant colors like kodachrome!

Tobias Martinsson · November 4th, 2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Andrewski

Understood!

Hi Richard
Your LED's look fantastic! I want to by two of both 3200k and 5600k! is there a newsletter I can sign up to or pre order?

// t

Richard Andrewski · November 4th, 2008, 08:40 AM

Hi Tobias,

Just send an email to info@coollights.biz letting me know specifically what you want and we'll put you on the list. Thanks.

Dan Chung · November 16th, 2008, 10:11 AM

Richard,

Do you ever make it to Beijing? would love to see one of your lights. Is there any dimming function at all on them? can you turn off strips of LEDS to reduce output?

Dan

Richard Andrewski · November 17th, 2008, 01:53 AM

Hi Dan,

Yes I do sometimes. Don't have a trip scheduled right now but send me your email address and we'll see if we can meet. Yes there is both continuous dimming and 5 bank select switches so people that don't like color temperature shift during dimming (everything shifts color from flos to hmis and even tungsten really) can just use bank select switches.

Mike Gunter · November 17th, 2008, 07:17 AM

Hi Richard,

The CL-LED600 looks terrific. I'll email you for inclusion for advance notice of the debut.

They look like winners, in both color temperatures.

I am unclear about the 12volt power supply included as rechargeable or battery not included.

My best,

Mike

Richard Gooderick · November 17th, 2008, 01:19 PM

Litewave | A new led light for the film and television industry that gives you total control | Features

Can I ask if anyone has any thoughts or comments about this LED light and what it might be useful for?
thanks

October 18th, 2008, 06:37 PM	#110
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	One person sent me a huge list of questions so I thought I would use it to start a FAQ. I'm sure many will have these questions so it may help some. 1) What is the quality and output of the LED lights? Is it as good as or better than the Lowel gear I currently use? Photometrics to be posted soon. As for questions about comparisons to specific lighting gear I don’t have enough data to be able to tell at this time. In general I would compare it to a 600w Fresnel somewhere in between narrow and wide beam but probably closer to the wide beam setting. When we get the photometric data, that will confirm it. 2) For interviews and small location use, would I be better off with fluorescent lights? Or are your new LEDs capable of excelling in that context? (I'm a bit reluctant to go with fluorescents because of bulb fragility). LEDs and fluorescents both have their place for sure. Some think that LEDs will replace fluorescent, HMI and tungsten but in my opinion that is a long ways off—if for no other reason than from a cost standpoint. I view LEDs as usable in specific instances where light can be well controlled and also where power availability is at a premium. For instance, such a panel would be great for filming subjects in a car at night. Or how about a walking interview down a busy sidewalk at night. Other uses would be the person taking video in a cave or out in the wilds of Africa at night filming animals. Notice I said “night” in all those instances. Such a light would be quickly overpowered by real daylight and even fluorescent softlights with their inherent falloff have difficulties. We have people tell us all the time they are able to use fluorescents such as a 4x55w or a 6x55w in a room where daylight is streaming in but I also know there are such situations where it doesn’t work too—particularly if you were actually outside during the day on all but the most overcast of days. That’s what the CDM 150 and all such fixtures in HMI class are for—competing with daylight with their superior throw and projection ability. Every tool has its place in the kit and the proper place to use it. None of them are good everywhere. 3) How many hours are your LEDs rated? The rating is 50,000 hours. The warranty period is 1 year. 4) Do your LED lights suffer from a green tint like the Flolight LEDs? If so, what workarounds do you suggest? No, they were chosen based on their CRI which is in the 80 to 85 range. Anytime you see a green bias like that its simply a CRI issue. Daylight white LEDs are some of the hardest to get in a good CRI. Go to 8000K or 3200K and it’s less trouble to get a superior CRI. Daylight 5600K 5mm LEDs though, because of the way “white” is implemented with 5mm LEDs are particularly tough to get right without going to a super expensive solution or a 1W to 5W type LED configuration. We do have planned a multi-1W LED panel solution and I think that will have its own uses and market as well. 5). What is the beam angle of the LEDs? 60 degrees. We experimented with the 15 to 30 degree range but found the CRI to be terrible for real daylight LEDs so we dropped back to the first suitable range where CRI came back to being usable. A 15 to 30 degree 5mm LED would be great for a small on camera light but you’d need to go to 8000K to get a really good CRI. What you get in return is about the best lumen output you can get from 5mm LEDs and great throw but a relatively small beam. We even tried some 45 degree LEDs but they still had the CRI issues. Otherwise, the 60 degree 5mm LEDs are about where I consider them to become useful. That is, until someone makes a better quality 5mm narrow beam angle LED in a price range that’s makes them useful. 6) Will your LED lights mix well with daylight and other light sources? For example, if I gel my Lowel lights to daylight? Or if I use LED lights from other companies, such as an on-camera light for an eye-light or front fill? So far in my tests, I think these LEDs do mix well with daylight or some other fluorescents or HMI we have tried. I don’t have the facility to test against other products like the Lowels. As I said earlier though, I think these things excel in use by themselves in particular instances where nothing else would work. I think flos are particularly still a great choice for mixing with tungsten or HMI when you’re doing work in normal settings. 7) Will you be including gels for 3200K, color wash FX, and diffusion? Not at this time. Otherwise it's best to just get the tungsten version if thats what you need. The reason being you'll lose less light than with gelling. I think the best accessory in that area would be a full CTO filter plastic panel that can slide into the accessory frame. Someone also mentioned that the plastic “fresnel” type panels used on overhead projectors work very well for focusing the beam of an LED type fixture and are available in wide and narrow so a couple of those panels would make a great future accessory as we can find them and make them available. 8) How do gels attach? Gels could attach to the barndoors with clips as many do today. No gel frame at this time. We do have an accessory slide in where the barndoors go. This is just a channel with adequate room for various kinds of modifier panels can go if you take out the barndoors. 9) What does "slideout barn door" mean? How does that work? As mentioned in the previous example, the barndoors simply slide into the accessory channel and lock into place with a spring loaded lock similar to the way barndoors lock into a Fresnel accessory holder. Having something else in there at the same time is not possible though and you would need to slide the barndoors out to be able to use some kind of light diffusion or modification panel or filter. 10) Will you include reflective attachments for the barn doors similar to Flolight's LED fixtures? Yes, we’ll use reflective intensifiers attached with Velcro. 11) What batteries will work with the lights? Voltage range? What do you recommend? I recommend something in the 150WH range in AB or V mount types which are normally around 14V to 15V or so. I haven’t done the tests yet with various kinds but will be by end of October. 12) Can I hook up batteries or battery belts without requiring the optional adapter plates? Yes, the power input on the back of the unit from our enclosed power supply is a 4 pin XLR male. Thus, if you have a power accessory with a 4 pin XLR female on a cable, you could attach to that power connector and replace the power supply with whatever it is you have. I recommend using only voltages in the range of 12v to 15V DC though. 13). What is the power consumption? About 50 watts at 12VDC. 14) Do you sell stands for them? What do you recommend and how much do they cost? Yes we have stands on the site—5 different models from small to heavy duty C-Stand. Something like our CL-LS3 stand is very small and lightweight and a good pairing with this fixture. 15) Will you offer cases for a kit of two, three or four? The only case we offer at this time is the free one for just one unit. I have other cases, but they are very large and not meant specifically for this fixture. We’ll see what demand there is for multi-cases and make one available as that becomes more clear. 16) Will you offer an extra discount when purchasing multiple lights? No other discounts at this time. We are already a manufacturer direct pricing model and heavily discounted. 17) Will the lights actually ship in December, or not until next year? Hopefully by December if no unforeseen delays come into play. 18) Will there be any way to use remote dimming control or DMX control with these lights? No DMX capability at this time. __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

November 4th, 2008, 08:40 AM	#116
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	Hi Tobias, Just send an email to info@coollights.biz letting me know specifically what you want and we'll put you on the list. Thanks. __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

November 17th, 2008, 01:53 AM	#118
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	Hi Dan, Yes I do sometimes. Don't have a trip scheduled right now but send me your email address and we'll see if we can meet. Yes there is both continuous dimming and 5 bank select switches so people that don't like color temperature shift during dimming (everything shifts color from flos to hmis and even tungsten really) can just use bank select switches. __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz

November 17th, 2008, 07:17 AM	#119
Mike Gunter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kalispell, Montana Posts: 164	Hi Richard, The CL-LED600 looks terrific. I'll email you for inclusion for advance notice of the debut. They look like winners, in both color temperatures. I am unclear about the 12volt power supply included as rechargeable or battery not included. My best, Mike __________________ Mike Gunter VideoTidbits.com

November 17th, 2008, 01:19 PM	#120
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	Litewave \| A new led light for the film and television industry that gives you total control \| Features Can I ask if anyone has any thoughts or comments about this LED light and what it might be useful for? thanks __________________ http://www.gooderick.com

October 18th, 2008, 03:37 PM	#107
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Hi Richard, I'm interested as well, but save a couple of the 3200k units for me. My largest retail client just completed re-lighting their 1000 plus stores using high-efficiency fluorescents that put out light at 3100 degrees kelvin. (I think it's all about energy costs!) It's surprised me quite a bit at how warm the light was, but it's really sweet to be able to use all my tungsten gear for highlights!!! So don't let all the tungsten LED units go away without letting me know! Take care.

October 18th, 2008, 03:49 PM	#108
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Christopher - what's that Officemax sheet part number or link, please?

October 18th, 2008, 07:21 PM	#111
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Is this a comparable light? (I realize that one is for 220V, but how does it compare otherwise?)

November 16th, 2008, 10:11 AM	#117
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Richard, Do you ever make it to Beijing? would love to see one of your lights. Is there any dimming function at all on them? can you turn off strips of LEDS to reduce output? Dan

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