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Old December 15th, 2003, 05:46 AM   #1
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Filters

This weekend I found a December 2002 Video Systems magazine which had a filter article that I knew had read but didn't know where.

http://videosystems.com/microsites/m...27&siteid=15RL

It sounds quite interesting, even if it is applied only to Tiffen filters. Has anyone tried any of them or others and has anything else to comment on?

Carlos
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Old December 15th, 2003, 07:41 AM   #2
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To quote an old Newfoundland fisherman "Codswhallop"

Strange, the differentiation of the PD150 and VX2K, they have the same lens and CCD block. Methinks this is a sales job put together with canned and modular knowledge gleaned from reading advertising and not touching. Why pick up a camera and test when you have all this great media coverage to work with.

Filters can be a great tool. Be sure to buy quality.
here are some filter facts regarding the various qualities

http://www.2filter.com/faq/faq.html
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Old December 15th, 2003, 08:39 AM   #3
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<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh : Strange, the differentiation of the PD150 and VX2K, they have the same lens and CCD block. Methinks this is a sales job put together with canned and modular knowledge gleaned from reading advertising and not touching. Why pick up a camera and test when you have all this great media coverage to work with. -->>>

Can't say I don't agree with you in this article being a Tiffen supported sales job. That's why I warned it applied to that brand only, but also asking comments on other people's experience with other brands and types.

But I am not so sure there are not some subtle differences between the PD150 and the VX2K. There are some sample images I have seen from both that do show some differences. Lens and CCD block may be the same, but there might be something else that Sony doesn't say and makes things different.

<<<-- Filters can be a great tool. Be sure to buy quality. -->>>

Until recently, the most affordable quality I could find around were from Tiffen. Filters from Lee were even more expensive.

Now there seem to be other contenders that are more affordable. Multicoating popularity has been probably the key to more options. One thing I once looked for was some way to apply an anti-reflection coat on my TV, but that doesn't seem to be something you buy at any store.

Quality filters is an area that you get what you pay. Results will be amplified and may not be seen at first on a 3" LCD screen.

Once again, feedback from other people's experiences would be the invaluable thing here.

<<<-- here are some filter facts regarding the various qualities

http://www.2filter.com/faq/faq.html -->>>

Interesting articles. Thanks!


Carlos
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Old December 15th, 2003, 08:59 AM   #4
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I very carefully explored the output of the VX2K and the PD150, I could see no difference. That's not really the point though.

My experience with Tiffen hasn't been great. I bought some Tiffen UV and polarizers and found the quality to be very poor.

I've since replaces the filters with Hoya and Formatt. I have a Hoya SMC UV on both my standard lens and wide angle adapter. So far as effect filtration, I now use Formatt 4x4" in a Cavision bellows matte box.

I'd use B+W or Schnieder as well. It was no real surprise finding out that Tiffen uses green glass and has no coated filters available. If you shop carefully, the best filters aren't much more money at all. B&H as well as Filter Connection prices are very competitive. As a matter of fact Schnieder make about the best and darkest polarizer there is.

Try Filter Find as well.
http://www.filterfind.net/whatsnews
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Old December 15th, 2003, 09:06 AM   #5
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Great suggestions, thanks!

What about those "DV helper" filters suggested on the article?

There should be equivalents on other bands, aren't they?


Carlos
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Old December 15th, 2003, 11:19 AM   #6
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>>>>>>>>Methinks this is a sales job put together with canned and modular knowledge gleaned from reading advertising and not touching.

- This article is based off of the original "Curse Of Digital Video" by Barry Braverman http://www.lafcpug.org/curseofdigital_feature.html

Barry Braverman knows what he is talking about - he is quite good at what he does and is a very sought-after DP in LA. You may get the impression that it is a Tiffen advertisement, but the reality is that Tiffen Filters are still the most widley used filters in Hollywood and still the most often used filter in most camera rental houses. We may see that change with the increasing demand for High Definition and the advent of the new precision manufacturing technology in Formatt Filters http://www.formatt.co.uk/glass/default.asp , time will tell. http://www.formatt.co.uk/glass/filters.asp

You should become more aware of what types of filters are out there and how they are used. The Black Pro Mist is based off of a "Mist" filter. "Mist" filters are offered by all filter companies under different names (ie: "SuperMist", "Black Frost", "White Frost", etc). Typically, a "Mist" filter will affect the mood of a scene and will tone down contrast, create halation/ flare in the highlights while having no effect on the blacks or resolution or color reproduction - depending on type and value used. A Black Diffusion FX filter simulates the subtle diffusion effect caused when a piece of netting is placed behind the rear of the lens. "Diffusion" filters are offered by all filter companies under different names and varying values of diffusion (ie: "Soft Net", "Gold Diffusion FX", "Soft FX", "Classic Soft", "Softar", "Black Net", etc...)

Barry has extensive experience with many different types and brands of filters - we should all be thankful for his sharing of knowledge.

- don
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Old December 15th, 2003, 11:29 AM   #7
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There were very inaccurate statements made about the PD150/VX2K and I stand by my comments.

http://www.formatt.co.uk/home/default.asp

http://www.tiffen.com/Header_page_tiffen_filters.htm

http://www.thkphoto.com/products/hoya/index.html

http://www.cokin.fr/

http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/filters/index.htm
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Old December 15th, 2003, 11:46 AM   #8
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I'm puzzled by Barry Braveman not mentioning the sharpening setting on the PD150 and VX2000 - crucial to any discussion on sharpness/softness. Maybe the two cameras he tested were set differently?

Best,
Helen
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Old December 15th, 2003, 01:54 PM   #9
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<<<-- Originally posted by Helen Bach : I'm puzzled by Barry Braveman not mentioning the sharpening setting on the PD150 and VX2000 - crucial to any discussion on sharpness/softness. Maybe the two cameras he tested were set differently?
-->>>

That is very true, and it was also something I wondered when I read the article.

Maybe it was because other cameras do not bring such adjustment or because he intended to deal with the question of external adjustment only.

In any case, I agree with Don that we shouldn't discard that article as simple advertising. Many articles on that magazine are written by people belonging in commercial companies, which wasn't the case with Mr. Braveman.

In spite of that policy, I always found Video Sytems to be one of the most useful industrial mags around. Less useless blah-blah-blah than the very expensive "Millimeter" use to have. Pity they don't mail Video Systems free to Brazil anymore.

My intention in mentioning that article was to talk about personal preferences in filters, if any, when shooting DV. Braveman uses an interesting expression when picking filters for the DVX100: do not think 35mm, think 16mm. Which is something I absolutely agree with on how to think of DV or even video in general.

Though there was a "law" which was very important when dealing with projects you were to blow from 16 to 35mm: try not use any filter that may affect resolution. So I had always been careful on what I would put in front of a small gauge video lens (Hi-8, DV).

Now I would like to know what is a Codswhallop...


Carlos
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Old December 15th, 2003, 02:37 PM   #10
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Barry may well be a very knowledgeable fellow . He most likely deals with nothing but pro equipment. Regardless of qualification the references to prosummer cameras appeared to be borrowed.

Codswhallop means baloney, a load of.
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