Is using Fresnels in a Softbox a good idea? at DVinfo.net

Aaron Koolen · February 25th, 2004, 07:42 PM

I'm going to have a few interviews to do in a few weeks, and as yet I don't have a lighting kit. I scored a couple of small LTM 150w Peppers from a local shop that had a good deal ( NZ$150 (US$100) for light, barndoors and gelframe) but obviously I'll need a couple more grunty lights.

Now due to the usual budget contraints etc, I was trying to think "versatile" and along the lines of using something like an Arri 650 Fresnel with a softbox so I can use it as a standard Fresnel or a Softlight. Unfortunately in my searches I haven't found anyone saying definitively that this would be a good idea.

Does anyone do this (Not necessarily an Arri, but a fresnel) as a main source of softlight and what do you think of it?

Cheers
Aaron

Wayne Orr · February 25th, 2004, 09:50 PM

Go for it Aaron. Many people don't use a fresnel light in a softbox because there are cheaper alternatives, such as any suitable open face fixture. But a fresnel will work fine, and I see a lot of them used in the motion picture studios with softboxes. Here is a link to a company that sells softboxes that are meant to be attached to the barn doors of a fresnel light, such as the Arri 650 you mention. http://www.backstageweb.com/lcd.htm
Or course you can also purchase the more exotic softboxes from Chimera, Photoflex and others, but you will spend almost as much for their speed ring as for the Backstage softbox.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Mike Rehmus · February 25th, 2004, 09:51 PM

Should work but I might remove the Fresnel lens for the softbox.

Jeff Patnaude · February 26th, 2004, 01:09 PM

We actually have a kit for a Fresnel light. Comes with a speed ring (the aluminum ring that goes on the light, and rods for the soft bag connect to it), rods and soft box. They make a lot of them- yes its fine. You can actually build a cheap one by cutting out foamcore in 4 trapezoid shapes, and gaff-taping them together with some diffusion material in it. You just clip it onto the barndoors.

Good luck,

Jeff Patnaude

Aaron Koolen · February 26th, 2004, 01:23 PM

Thanks guys. Jeff, by "we", who do you mean? Arri?

Cheers
Aaron

Jeff Patnaude · February 26th, 2004, 04:59 PM

Sorry-
nope I sure dont work for Arri. I'm a corporate videographer for Primerica- a sister company to Citigroup.

We have two camera packages that go out in the field. We use videoPro soft boxes with tota lights, an Arri kit with 2 650's and either a baby soft or 1k, and a Dedo light kit.

Jeff :>)

Larry Vaughn · October 22nd, 2008, 06:38 PM

It seems to me that you could use just about any open faced light in a softbox and get more even results than what you would get with a fresnel. I bought a Photoflex Cine Dome to go with a 6" fresnel and liked the output better when I used it with a 500 watt tubular bulb that fits in the photoflex lamp fixture. The boxes are better built that some of the cheap stuff.

You can even use an old 600 watt smith victor home movie light and can attach it to most speed rings with a small amount of ingenuity, just make sure it's not close to the fabric or it will start a fire.

Dave Dodds · October 23rd, 2008, 11:15 AM

Go with a deeper softbox (like the Photoflex Cinedome) for use with a fresnel. You'll get more even coverage than with a standard box. Granted, it'll be even better with an open-faced fixture, but you'll still get pleasing results with a fresnel.

Good luck.

~~Dave

Perrone Ford · October 23rd, 2008, 11:28 AM

Or you could use darn near any light and shoot through a silk for about 1/3 the cost. Or bounce off a piece of foamcore for even less money. Similar results, more cash in your wallet to buy other things.

Foamcore spills everywhere so it's handy if you've got the space behind the talent. Silks and diffusion spread out a lot like a softbox, so you'll have to flag like a softbox.

Softboxes are great, and I have one (and use it a LOT) but there are other good solutions too.

Richard Andrewski · October 23rd, 2008, 04:26 PM

I think that's definitely true that a fresnel in a softbox is not optimum.

The softbox is like a big parabolic reflector and if you know about that, you know that its at its most optimum when the bulb is right in the sweet spot in the middle of the parabolic. When using a fresnel, its not at optimum position. I think many that have fresnels just consider this to be:

1). an extra use for the fresnel (as opposed to having to have a softbox fixture by itself, thereby getting two uses out of the fresnel--alone and with softbox to make it more utilitarian) and

2). a convenient way to add a large diffusion to the front of it (getting the bigger soft source).

So yes it is best to have a bulb specifically in the middle of the reflector and you cannot do that with a fresnel since the bulb is hidden inside of the fixture and thus you have just a flat source (the lens) emanating the light from well behind the sweet spot thus keeping the reflector from doing much good.

February 25th, 2004, 07:42 PM	#1
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Is using Fresnels in a Softbox a good idea? I'm going to have a few interviews to do in a few weeks, and as yet I don't have a lighting kit. I scored a couple of small LTM 150w Peppers from a local shop that had a good deal ( NZ$150 (US$100) for light, barndoors and gelframe) but obviously I'll need a couple more grunty lights. Now due to the usual budget contraints etc, I was trying to think "versatile" and along the lines of using something like an Arri 650 Fresnel with a softbox so I can use it as a standard Fresnel or a Softlight. Unfortunately in my searches I haven't found anyone saying definitively that this would be a good idea. Does anyone do this (Not necessarily an Arri, but a fresnel) as a main source of softlight and what do you think of it? Cheers Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

February 25th, 2004, 09:51 PM	#3
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Should work but I might remove the Fresnel lens for the softbox. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

February 26th, 2004, 01:23 PM	#5
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Thanks guys. Jeff, by "we", who do you mean? Arri? Cheers Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

October 22nd, 2008, 06:38 PM	#7
Larry Vaughn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 201	softbox It seems to me that you could use just about any open faced light in a softbox and get more even results than what you would get with a fresnel. I bought a Photoflex Cine Dome to go with a 6" fresnel and liked the output better when I used it with a 500 watt tubular bulb that fits in the photoflex lamp fixture. The boxes are better built that some of the cheap stuff. You can even use an old 600 watt smith victor home movie light and can attach it to most speed rings with a small amount of ingenuity, just make sure it's not close to the fabric or it will start a fire.

October 23rd, 2008, 11:28 AM	#9
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Or you could use darn near any light and shoot through a silk for about 1/3 the cost. Or bounce off a piece of foamcore for even less money. Similar results, more cash in your wallet to buy other things. Foamcore spills everywhere so it's handy if you've got the space behind the talent. Silks and diffusion spread out a lot like a softbox, so you'll have to flag like a softbox. Softboxes are great, and I have one (and use it a LOT) but there are other good solutions too. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

February 25th, 2004, 09:50 PM	#2
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	Go for it Aaron. Many people don't use a fresnel light in a softbox because there are cheaper alternatives, such as any suitable open face fixture. But a fresnel will work fine, and I see a lot of them used in the motion picture studios with softboxes. Here is a link to a company that sells softboxes that are meant to be attached to the barn doors of a fresnel light, such as the Arri 650 you mention. http://www.backstageweb.com/lcd.htm Or course you can also purchase the more exotic softboxes from Chimera, Photoflex and others, but you will spend almost as much for their speed ring as for the Backstage softbox. Wayne Orr, SOC

February 26th, 2004, 01:09 PM	#4
Jeff Patnaude Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Duluth, Georgia Posts: 248	We actually have a kit for a Fresnel light. Comes with a speed ring (the aluminum ring that goes on the light, and rods for the soft bag connect to it), rods and soft box. They make a lot of them- yes its fine. You can actually build a cheap one by cutting out foamcore in 4 trapezoid shapes, and gaff-taping them together with some diffusion material in it. You just clip it onto the barndoors. Good luck, Jeff Patnaude

February 26th, 2004, 04:59 PM	#6
Jeff Patnaude Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Duluth, Georgia Posts: 248	Sorry- nope I sure dont work for Arri. I'm a corporate videographer for Primerica- a sister company to Citigroup. We have two camera packages that go out in the field. We use videoPro soft boxes with tota lights, an Arri kit with 2 650's and either a baby soft or 1k, and a Dedo light kit. Jeff :>)

October 23rd, 2008, 11:15 AM	#8
Dave Dodds Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York Posts: 204	Go with a deeper softbox (like the Photoflex Cinedome) for use with a fresnel. You'll get more even coverage than with a standard box. Granted, it'll be even better with an open-faced fixture, but you'll still get pleasing results with a fresnel. Good luck. ~~Dave

October 23rd, 2008, 04:26 PM	#10
Richard Andrewski Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Shenzhen, China Posts: 781	I think that's definitely true that a fresnel in a softbox is not optimum. The softbox is like a big parabolic reflector and if you know about that, you know that its at its most optimum when the bulb is right in the sweet spot in the middle of the parabolic. When using a fresnel, its not at optimum position. I think many that have fresnels just consider this to be: 1). an extra use for the fresnel (as opposed to having to have a softbox fixture by itself, thereby getting two uses out of the fresnel--alone and with softbox to make it more utilitarian) and 2). a convenient way to add a large diffusion to the front of it (getting the bigger soft source). So yes it is best to have a bulb specifically in the middle of the reflector and you cannot do that with a fresnel since the bulb is hidden inside of the fixture and thus you have just a flat source (the lens) emanating the light from well behind the sweet spot thus keeping the reflector from doing much good. __________________ Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114 http://www.coollights.biz