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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:42 PM   #1
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New LED lamps.

A few weeks ago, I had a small run Chinese lighting outfit make some MR16 LED bulbs to my specifications, I plan on using them in my Anton Bauer Ultralight 2 heads.

I should have then in a few weeks, and will post screen caps if they actually work out.

My specifications are: One 5600K lamp and one 3200K lamp, both using Cree chips, no more than 10W draw, minimum of 400 Lumens @ 1 meter, minimum of 55 degree spread, no more than a 110 degree burn temp, 12 to 16V DC, minimum of 10,000 on and off cycles, price per unit no more than $45 USD landed cost, and able to be fitted to a standard MR16 socket.

Stay tuned...
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Old November 18th, 2009, 01:51 PM   #2
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Enzo:

There are lots of MR16 LEDs on the market already. Whats different with yours from the B&H or Frezzi ones?

The 55 degree LED flood seems impossible for the MR-16, although there is a 55 degree tungsten.

The 3200K also seems impossible.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 04:19 PM   #3
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I think these are actually going to become fairly common as halogen mr16 spot light replacements. Here's one available in 60 degree:

http://acolyteled.com/assets/pdf/lamps/amr165w32.pdf

A google search turned up others. The LED can easily be made in whatever color temperature you require and the lens is applied separately so its only necessary for a manufacturer to find a 55 degree lens from one of their lens suppliers.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 09:09 AM   #4
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The Frezzi Mini-Fill uses this type of lamp, so I am interested.

It's just the small area available in the circumference and depth of this lamp would seem to be limiting.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 02:26 PM   #5
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And door three has...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam View Post
Enzo:

There are lots of MR16 LEDs on the market already. Whats different with yours from the B&H or Frezzi ones?
Jeff, as Richard already pointed out, there are already quite a few LED lamps that come close to what I am having made. The major difference in the ones that are readily available and the ones I am having made is in the Lumens output, which I specified had to be no less than 400 @ 1 meter, the max allowable heat generated by the lamp, and the spread.

Having come up in the business when there were no Chinese vendors willing to make short runs of an item, no Internet, and no eBay, I became accustomed to having to design and make items myself that would make my work easier.

This is not the first lighting unit I have designed, I just designed a LED Fresnel lamp for a friend that is the lead man for a big company that does location event lighting. The LED Fresnels currently available off the shelf have a lot of problems in even light distribution and actually having the Fresnel lens focus the light as it should.

Years ago, I designed a variable light output on-camera Obie because nothing like that existed at the time, and I was working a show that had an older female actor as one of the leads.

The basic principle of that Obie was later used in other designs by Panavision (the PanaObie), and a few other lighting equipment manufacturers as well. Those later designs were much better built and tricked out, but the net effect was the same as the pretty simple setup I designed. Lots of DP friends borrowed that Obie from me. Here is a link to the photo of that light: Production Pages.

I'm not a lighting design guru by any means, but I can see light, and I understand fully how it works in relation to the work I do. So this project may work out, or it may not. It won't be the first time I have been around that block.
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Last edited by Enzo Giobbé; November 19th, 2009 at 04:16 PM. Reason: typo
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Old November 21st, 2009, 12:37 PM   #6
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New LED lights update

I received my lights from China yesterday, and just did a quick test this morning before doing a more comprehensive test and photo session.

They decided to go with a pretty standard 3 LED Cree chip system mounted in a low grade aluminum heat sink and were able to meet all my requirements except for the most important one.

The lamps fit (just) into the Anton Bauer Ultralight 2 and base, generate less than 50 C. of heat after 10 minutes on time, consume a little under 9 watts of power, and have about a 70 degree spread (at 1 meter). While I specified one 3200K lamp and one 5600K lamp, the actual Kelvin output is 3000K and 5100K respectively (which is well within the K range I was aiming for).

Where the lamps don't meet my specifications is in the all important Lumens output. I specified no less than 400 Lumens @ 1 meter for both lights, what I am getting is about 410 Lumens @ 1 foot.

Might have been a language barrier kind of thing, but I will have them make up another set and have my born in China friend explain my exact design parameters again.

So for now, I will call this lamp set the MK I. Stay tuned for the MK II's.
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Old November 21st, 2009, 06:01 PM   #7
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How are you measuring lumens? Lumens are normally measured in an integrating sphere. Lux and foot candle is the more common measurement taken for fixtures with a light meter that produce a beam and a MR16 LED qualifies as a fixture really since its a self contained light producing source with a lens and power conversion built in. I think that may have been the issue because LED manufacturers do indeed measure in lumens since they most often have a sphere to measure in. They hardly ever use a light meter in my experience. In fact I've never seen any lighting factory here in China with a light meter. The relationship between lumens and lux is not one that corresponds well. Thus no easy or reliable formula to convert between the two.
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 11:56 AM   #8
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Measuring Lumens

Ciao Richard,

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I kinda figured they would not have a light meter handy, that's why I specified Lumens output.

I did not know that in China, they measure a Lumen in an integrating sphere, which is odd. Foot-candles are calculated that way, but Lumens are normally calculated as the amount of illuminance on a 1 ft. sq. surface (a foot-candle is equal to one Lumen per sq. ft.).

I never mentioned Lux, as I thought that would be too much information to throw out there, but the conversion is pretty simple. For all practical purposes, a foot-candle = 10 Lux. I understand your comment about light units not corresponding well across cultures :)

Now I have a better grasp on how to more easily explain my needs.
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Old December 26th, 2009, 01:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo Giobbé View Post
A few weeks ago, I had a small run Chinese lighting outfit make some MR16 LED bulbs to my specifications, I plan on using them in my Anton Bauer Ultralight 2 heads.

I should have then in a few weeks, and will post screen caps if they actually work out.

My specifications are: One 5600K lamp and one 3200K lamp, both using Cree chips, no more than 10W draw, minimum of 400 Lumens @ 1 meter, minimum of 55 degree spread, no more than a 110 degree burn temp, 12 to 16V DC, minimum of 10,000 on and off cycles, price per unit no more than $45 USD landed cost, and able to be fitted to a standard MR16 socket.

Stay tuned...
Still waiting for the Mark 2 versions of my specified lamps. I think it would also be a good idea to have an on-camera light shootout in the LA area sometime next year.
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