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Old February 23rd, 2010, 03:15 PM   #31
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My problem now is getting 3 point lighting in such a small space. I honestly am stumped in what to do next.

Anyone have any suggestions with my small space?
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Old February 23rd, 2010, 03:31 PM   #32
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FWIW: I haven't tried it myself, but I saw some black mosquito netting online a week ago that might make a cheap scrim for the windows. You might have to double or triple it to knock down the sunlight, but it looked like you got enough for several windows/layers for $50.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 02:52 AM   #33
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I did a drama shoot with a similar kitchen last November, I had a 800 watt redhead outside with a dichroic daylight filter on as it was cloudy and another 800 watt redhead with daylight filter bounced off the ceiling inside to fill.

You can see the look of it here:YouTube - HDProdSolutions's Channel

You could always just use the interior bounce light on its own to even out the outside light.

So rather than trying to reduce the outside light source, increase the interior lighting to even out the exposure.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #34
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If you try to add light inside to match outside you could really heat things up in that kitchen!...and not in a good way. Could be very uncomfortable to work in with with all those lights blasting in one room...I would bring the exterior source down.
The netting sounds like a good idea to me, as well as ND gel.
Don't be too concerned about adhering to a 3-point scheme either.
Just flip the lights around and bounce them off the wall to get a nice soft fill light and you should be fine.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #35
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Just bite the bullet and spend twenty bucks on a few of these:

Rosco | #3407 Filter - RoscoSun CTO - 20x24" | RS340711

Hang them on the outside of the window. Corrects the color and knocks you down 1 f-stop as well. No muss, no fuss.

EDIT: Sorry, missed your other post (from the other thread?) that you already have gels for the window. Seems to me that's the logical first step.
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Last edited by Adam Gold; February 24th, 2010 at 02:04 PM.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 01:44 PM   #36
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Threads Merged

Lee:

Not sure why you started another thread two days later, maybe you couldn't find the first one? I've taken the liberty of merging these together so all of the information is in one place.

This is a good example of why the internet can be a confusing place to get answers to questions that are not black-and-white. When anyone on this or any other board asks "how do I light (X)?" there will always be a wide range of responses; after all, everyone lights differently. You've received a lot of good advice (and some not-so-good) and at this point I imagine you are more confused than not on how to proceed.

Specifics are always easier to respond to. Color temperature, for instance, is mathematical. If you don't want your daylight and work lights to read radically differently, you'll need to color correct one or the other. Shadows are based on physics: the smaller the source, the harder the shadow. Move your lights off to the side and the shadow moves away from behind them. Soften your source via diffusion or bounce, and the shadow spreads out and becomes less noticeable. We talked about diffusion and bounces in the first thread and your demo video made it clear that you used undiluted hard light. You may want to start from the beginning and read everything again.

My recommendation, if you still interested in pursuing advice on this, is to find some stills from the shows you referenced at the beginning (or anywhere else) and post those. It's much easier to dissect existing lighting than to take 20 different pieces of advice starting from scratch.

By the way--if you want naturalistic, forget about the backlight. You don't need or want it for this set. Create separation by alternating tones.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 02:31 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
If you try to add light inside to match outside you could really heat things up in that kitchen!...and not in a good way. Could be very uncomfortable to work in with with all those lights blasting in one room...I would bring the exterior source down.
The netting sounds like a good idea to me, as well as ND gel.
Don't be too concerned about adhering to a 3-point scheme either.
Just flip the lights around and bounce them off the wall to get a nice soft fill light and you should be fine.
We were shooting in November in deepest Yorkshire so it was a bonus to heat up the kitchen!

One other idea is to park a high sided car or people carrier outside the window so that it reduces the direct light.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #38
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We were shooting in November in deepest Yorkshire so it was a bonus to heat up the kitchen!
Plus it might inspire the talent to wear a little less clothing!
Double bonus!!

;-)

The vehicle idea is not a bad one either...
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Old February 24th, 2010, 03:58 PM   #39
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Yeah sorry for the two threads @ Charles.

But I think I've come up with with a final solution to my problem.

I have 3 point lighting, one on the table one on the chair a few feet from the table and one on the counter closest to the refridgeraitor. What I did to reduce the shadows was I took 3 diffusion umbrellas my dad had from doing photography and put them over the 3 work lights I had up. It seemed to completely kill all the unwanted shadows. I still have the white drapes up for killing the exposure from the windows above the sink. I plan to add more later on.

Here's an example of one of the light set ups I decided to work with.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/104...2318209700.jpg

The first shoot is this weekend so I'll try to post some raw footage to show my result
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Old February 24th, 2010, 05:53 PM   #40
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I filmed in a kitchen once.
At night ;-)
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Old February 25th, 2010, 01:22 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Lee Tamer View Post
So I did a test lighting today,

myself
Thanks for the update and the pics, looking much better.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:17 AM   #42
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Shooting through umbrellas will kill a lot of the output--depends how much you need to balance. Nominally those were built to be used the other way around (face the lights away from the set and the inside of the umbrella facing the set). That should still give you a pretty soft light but a lot more output. Unless the umbrellas are so old that they are particularly thin!

You'll still need to color correct unless you aren't bothered by the blue daylight and orange halogen mixing.

Again, don't get hung up on three-point lighting. That's an old-school rule, best applied for interviews. Most prime-time drama (like you referenced) doesn't use it in the traditional sense.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #43
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I suggest NOT worrying about 3 point lighting, unless you're filming an infomercial in there.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:26 AM   #44
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This reminds me of a very naturalistic drama director who asked, when I'd put in a very slight 3/4 edge on the shoulder of an actor, where this light was coming from? He was satisfied when I pointed to an open door behind the actor, which was out of shot. The rest of the drama had pretty motivated lighting sources.

You tend not to get back light in a daylight kitchen unless the window(s) are behind the actor. Night time is a different ball game with modern kitchen designs and concealed lights.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 11:08 AM   #45
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Theoretically backlights are intended to create separation, but I'm often more inclined to do so by alternating planes of light in the background.
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