Are all theatre lighting designers dim? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Photon Management
Shine an ever-loving light on you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 25th, 2010, 01:41 AM   #16
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,546
Now you see them...

Here's a couple of screen grabs off the DVD (this show went straight to a Philips HDD DVD recorder). No outbreak of flesh-eating superbug - faces have been smudged on these pics to avoid individuals being identified.

When the photographer fires his flash another 3 almost unlit dancers appear. This happened several times during the show.
Attached Thumbnails
Are all theatre lighting designers dim?-company1.jpg   Are all theatre lighting designers dim?-company2.jpg  

Colin McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2010, 10:48 AM   #17
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 1,774
Collin,

From Pic#2 it looks like you shot this in 50i? In a low light situation like this I'd shoot 24p (or in your case 25p). That way you could set the shutter at 1/50th and pick up a little more light? What were your settings other than the gain?

Garrett
Garrett Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2010, 11:57 AM   #18
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,546
Guilty - 50i it was. With hindsight, I would have got more light on 25p as you say, but when I was setting this up, I didn't realise it would be so dark during the performance. I had the lights turned up more during the run through and decided that 1/50 sec and 50i would be the best compromise to catch the movement and still have enough light. I didn't fancy changing the frame rate once the show had started and I saw what I was up against.

I switched off the custom presets as I didn't have one loaded for filming black cats at midnight. In future I'll keep one ready - which do you think would be best for this kind of situation? I don't like to take the gain beyond +6dB and try to keep it at -3 or 0 if possible.
Colin McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2010, 01:32 PM   #19
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,143
The central faces are correctly exposed, getting more exposure on the camera so you could see into the darker stage areas would mean that these faces are over exposed. The still camera's flash just added some fill light, so you saw more detail in the shadow areas.

25p is normally 1/50 of a second unless you select a slower shutter speed.
Brian Drysdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2010, 02:37 PM   #20
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 1,774
Hey Brian,

As I started thinking about it, it did dawn on me the Colin probably had his shutter already set to 1/50th. Out here in NTSC land we get a little lighting advantage going from 1/60th to 1/48th for 24p.

I agree that overall the exposure on the middle of the stage looks ok. That is always one of the biggest issues with live performances,there's just a lot of hot spots on the stage a a lot of dark areas.

Really the only way to combat this is to get a couple more cameras and get them closer to the stage on the sides to get the exposure correct and frame for the darker areas.

Colin, I did have a preset that I worked up that helped with stage shows. I'll have to see if i saved it somewhere. I no longer use Canon cams so I'll have to dig through some old files. The other way to help out is to get a camera with a bigger sensor that can pick up low light areas better. Then you could stretch the blacks to retain some more details.

Garrett
Garrett Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2010, 04:46 PM   #21
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
The central faces are correctly exposed, getting more exposure on the camera so you could see into the darker stage areas would mean that these faces are over exposed. The still camera's flash just added some fill light, so you saw more detail in the shadow areas.
Fair enough, but when I had the lighting turned up there was much more spill, and so less contrast between the centre stage and the darker areas. With the greater illumination level, I had the lens stopped down a bit, so the faces were still OK (my zebras were grazing peacefully).
Colin McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #22
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 6,143
Unfortunately, I suspect the contrast ratio would remain the same, just the light levels were higher in the shadow area. So, once you set the correct exposure, the stage wings would still be dark compared to the still brighter centre stage.
Brian Drysdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2010, 08:26 PM   #23
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,109
Just did a shoot yesterday with the same director who I shot the underexposed dance film for related to earlier in this thread. This time, it was a scene in a room at night. I checked with my light meter, he made me underexpose the image by three stops, it looked horrible. I begged and pleaded with him to NOT make me underexpose the images, the editor was even on set and he told the director that he can easily make the well exposed images look dark but the director persisted, make it darker, its too bright, etc. So I gave him what he wanted. But it killed me to shoot massively underexposed footage, espeically with a 1/3" camera. With a crew, actors, a nice stage, everything.

Painful shooting with directors who don't understand the tools used to create their vision and don't listen to the pros that they hire to help them realize their vision. I have decided next time that I will purposely turn the brightness down on the client monitor and then I can correctly expose the actors at least. He will have a heart attack when he screens the dailies though and sees nicely exposed images though.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,088
Dan, I've been on the OTHER side where the director wanted a VERY blown out doorway when the protagonist walks through. I said "blow it out in post" but he wanted it in camera.

Get to the edit bay and the discussion of "why is the colour on his face off? Can we bring that back?"

4 stops OVER exposed on DVCam with 1/3" imagers isn't MUCH nicer to work with.
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #25
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sydney.
Posts: 2,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin McDonald View Post
I switched off the custom presets as I didn't have one loaded for filming black cats at midnight. In future I'll keep one ready - which do you think would be best for this kind of situation? I don't like to take the gain beyond +6dB and try to keep it at -3 or 0 if possible.
Col check this CP out it's great .. IMO it would have really helped on the night ...

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/xh-serie...-included.html

How was the sound of the dancing on those risers?

Cheers.
__________________
Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.
Allan Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2010, 10:22 AM   #26
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,546
Thanks for that link, Allan. I'll give that CP a try at the first opportunity. Mind you looking out the window just now I might even need it even outside in this ghastly weather!

As for the audio on the DVD, I made a separate mix from the PA mixer and took it to the camera via a D/I box to keep my inputs balanced. That got me the music from the CD player plus the continuity radio mic. For ambient sound I used a Senny G2 kit with a MKE 2 Gold mic hung over the front of the stage. That got me the audience and all the clumping noises from the dancers on the staging!

There's a very convenient electrically operated projector screen that drops down at the front of the stage just right for taping the transmitter to and letting the tiny mic hang down at just the right height when it's raised fully. It's easy to set up and almost nothing is visible to the audience.

Oops, that's a bit OT on the lighting forum, sorry.
Colin McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2010, 02:54 PM   #27
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sydney.
Posts: 2,887
Thanks. Notice in that thread post 25 Randy changed the CORING and SHARPNESS to 0.

I couldn't see any worthwhile differences and left them as is.

Cheers.
__________________
Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.
Allan Black is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:53 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network