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Old May 11th, 2012, 03:13 AM   #1
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Safe lighting solution for disabled people

Hi, everyone.

Since LED lights arrived on the market I have not given them much respect - my attitude has always been, light it properly with the right colour temperature or don't light it at all. But we're working in an environment filled with disabled people in wheelchairs, and safety is a big thing. Traditional tungsten lights are heavy, hot, top-heavy, and filled with electricity. Some of these disabled people habitually bump into things in their powered wheelchairs.

I have had the Dedo lights brought to my attention. What colour temperature are they? Are they as versatile as regular tungsten lights?

We have thousands of dollars to spend, and we can justify going out of our way for safety and accessibility. We need to be able to shoot short films with proper lighting, and attention to colour grading etc.

What's the solution?

Richard
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Old May 11th, 2012, 03:55 AM   #2
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

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Originally Posted by Richard Cavell View Post
But we're working in an environment filled with disabled people in wheelchairs, and safety is a big thing. Traditional tungsten lights are heavy, hot, top-heavy, and filled with electricity. Some of these disabled people habitually bump into things in their powered wheelchairs.

I have had the Dedo lights brought to my attention. What colour temperature are they? Are they as versatile as regular tungsten lights?
I suspect I'm the person that first mentioned Dedo lights.......

To amplify what I originally said, then "classic" Dedos ARE tungsten - the big difference is firstly that they are low voltage - 12 or 24 volt - and secondly that they have a highly effective mirror/lens arrangement, so the light tends far more to go where wanted and not spill everywhere. That means that much of the time a fairly low wattage seems to be as effective as a far higher wattage older lamp.

The knock on is that they run much cooler and are far less heavy. It also becomes feasible to run them off 12 volt supplies, especially standard V-lock camera batteries. It becomes far easier to clamp them in places where a more conventional lamp would be impractical for reasons of size/weight/heat. You can also easily use them on location with (say) something like car batteries. (With most of them you lose the dimming ability on 12 volt operation, but one model does have a dimmer in built to the head.)

Disadvantages? They tend to be best at putting a relatively narrower beam onto a scene, far less at generally illuminating a wide area. With modern cameras this tends not to be the disadvantage it may have been some years ago, as now cameras tend to be sensitive enough to get basic exposure from ambient light - the Dedo then act to give modelling/fill etc. For such as a typical office interview, much of the light will be what's there anyway - but use (typically) a 100w and 50w Dedos for key and backlight and it gives exactly the right amount of modelling, and the inline dimmers give extra control.

More information at D E D O L I G H T Most of my experience is with the (smaller) "Classic" series - note they do do larger and more powerful versions, and also HMI types. (Incidentally, I've no business connection whatsoever with them - just a very satisfied user!) Whatever you decide, I thoroughly recommend checking them out. Even if you decide on mostly big conventional lights, may be worth thinking of one or two Dedos for fine control.

The point about LEDs was made generally. They are far better than they used to be - but may still not equal tungsten IN SOME RESPECTS. In other ways (esp power consumption) they are obviously superior. That's especially relevant when you're looking for on camera lights. In the Dedo range they do do a couple of LED for different purposes to their more general range, example D E D O L I G H T
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Old May 11th, 2012, 04:13 AM   #3
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

Oddly, Ipswich is just down the road from me - but not your one!

The snag you have is common. If physical contact is unavoidable, then any type of light with mains voltage in the unit is a potential problem, but with proper circuit protection, all types of device can be made safe from the electrical perspective.

I would be more concerned with the potential for contact with a falling or damaged heat source. For instance, a simple lighting stand, if damaged could drop a hot light source onto a person who cannot get out of its way.

Something like a 1K Arri, with barndoors is a considerable weight of very hot source - and is a higher risk than the more compact sources, like Dedos and the other small sources - but they're still hot.
Fluorescent sources are cool sources, but having one fall showers people with glass, even if front protection is provided.
LEDs are cool sources and have no glass. Both mains and low voltage powered versions have electrical protection so the only risk is that of physical injury by impact - and seem best.

The main objection is that colour rendition is still a problem. The problem is getting better all the time, but it's still a problem.

If I were doing a risk assessment - something here in the UK we have to do all the time - I'd probably find the biggest hazard is the trailing cables. If funds are not too much of a problem, I think I would consider using a clever suspension system - with all your fixtures fitted with TV studio pole operation. The type I'm thinking of has a number of fixed beams that travel one way, then a number of beams fixed to those on running cradles - so you can move the beams around to have your lights exactly where you want them. For people in wheelchairs, I think full participation is important - so with a pole, a wheelchair bound person can pan tilt and focus lights - which is really inclusive. Able bodied people do any lamp changes or swaps - but the person in the chair really can do lighting. LED/Flu/Tungsten - doesn't matter. You have a clear studio floor and nothing to crash into or trip over. You can start with a basic system and be able to add equipment as technology settles down - but a much better place to work in - these track and barrel systems are really brilliant for everyone. One further feature - you can buy dimmers now quite cheaply that are DMX controlled, and if you control them from something like magicq - which is very popular in theatre and music, your wheelchair bound people can control the lighting from an app on their iPhone! Magicq is free! A simple DMX-USB adaptor is available for around 50 which means anyone can afford it - they make their money by people buying fader panels of varying sizes - but the software can run from any pc/mac. The only downside is that using a mouse is not the easiest way of moving a fader - hence why people buy real faders. For a TV/Photo studio - you don't actually need real faders. You can even programme at home and then have your own design setup on a usb stick. Ideal for disabled people.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 05:54 AM   #4
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

I am lighting almost everything these days with various types of Litepanels instruments -- and almost always on battery power. Besides being cool, light weight, and having plenty of strength, it is GREAT not to have any power cables running all over the place for people to trip on. I can go about two hours straight before swapping batteries if everything is running at full power, but usually the lights are not needed at full power so I can go a lot longer. That's another nice thing about LEDs -- the ability to dim them from 0% to 100% with no visible color shifting, and that means a lot less grip equipment too.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 02:08 AM   #5
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

do what you should do if you were working around the public.

use decent size stands and double bag them
gaffer tape all your cables to the floor.
put safety cones around the lights.

believe it or not disabled people dont go around looking for light stands to knock over.
if they can see them they wont hit them.

why would a led hurt any less than an incandescent light if it landed on your
head, my advice would be to use the best light for the job.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 05:14 PM   #6
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

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why would a led hurt any less than an incandescent light if it landed on your
head.
In the case of a Dedo light versus a traditional incandescent light (of 650-800 watt), the Dedo is a fraction of the weight, and tends to run cooler as well. Similar argument for LED panels.

The size/weight factor also means they can be realistically mounted via a clamp in places where it wouldn't be feasible to do that with a traditional lamp, which may reduce the number of stands needed. It's also more feasible to run Dedos/LEDs via batteries, which may not only be safer, but speed up rigging etc - especially if mains cables would otherwise be needed to be taped.

And horses for courses, but often they might be the best light for a job anyway.......
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Old May 16th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #7
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

Hi Guys
I've shot a number of videos with people with disabilities (Scope vic etc) and unless you are in a controlled situation I would be wary of using any lights at all, particularly if people are roaming around. Some people get real curious and come up and want to touch the light and the camera for that matter... But if you must light then go with LED's and if you are in an open space have somebody standing next to the light holding it. Also be aware that some people may stare at the light source, which ain't good. However I've done some controlled shoots with a Counselor and client acting out roles and to ensure the comfort of the client we wen't with cool flouro lights.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 12:34 AM   #8
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

Neil,

I'm thinking that you're right - using no lights at all is the safest option. That is to say, using none of the type of lights that can be reached from the ground. We can still use the Sun, and the office fluorescent lights. Safety has to be a high priority and many of the clients just don't have the intellectual breadth to be trusted around something that hot and electrical.

Well, at least I have found a really good LED-based on-camera light. We can use that!

Richard
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Old May 17th, 2012, 01:49 AM   #9
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

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Originally Posted by Richard Cavell View Post
Well, at least I have found a really good LED-based on-camera light. We can use that!
I suspect an LED on-camera light may also work off-camera in a safe manner. This could allow for a number of lighting configurations that wouldn't look so flat.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 02:21 AM   #10
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

really guys...........

they are disabled not stupid..........................
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Old May 17th, 2012, 03:47 AM   #11
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

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they are disabled not stupid..........................
In the thread that this span off from, Richard said right at the beginning that "Nearly all of the clients are intellectually disabled and have significant mobility issues. Most of the clients are in wheelchairs."

In other words, we're not just talking about physical disability.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:51 AM   #12
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

The 312 LED panels should be ideal for this application as they are totally self contained and give off a reasonable amount of light.

They are also small enough to mount via magic arms to keep stands at a minimum or even on the camera and several of them should give a good solution to set-ups.

They are available for low cost off e-bay and have batteries included, you can see a short review of them here:
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:36 AM   #13
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

david

i saw no reference to intellectual disability in post no 1 but thats beside the point.

try to knock a decent stand over with two shot bags on it...not possible

you could try telling them not to go near the stands......you might be suprised
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Old May 17th, 2012, 03:40 PM   #14
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

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david

i saw no reference to intellectual disability in post no 1 but thats beside the point.
You wouldn't have done - I did say "In the thread that this span off from...." - and that thread is at How should I spend $30,000 ?

If you hadn't read that thread I'm not surprised that previous posts came across badly - it seemed that I and others just equated physical disability with intellect problems. That is certainly not the case, and I thought it important to put the record straight - because other facts had been mentioned that were not in this thread.
Quote:
try to knock a decent stand over with two shot bags on it...not possible
But - if you don't need to use heavy stands, shot bags, heavy luminaires which always need mains and cables (and run hot) ........ then why on earth do so?

If they are a lighting system you have already, then yes, there are ways they could be used safely - but if you're buying lamps from new, why not get the most suitable now available?
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #15
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Re: Safe lighting solution for disabled people

my apologies david, i was not trying to be argumentative, i did not see the other thread so was not aware this thread was a follow on.
i am not a big fan of leds, they are convenient and i have a couple but they are a last resort option for me.
i have a few dedos and can highly recommend them.
cheers
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