Updated ND Discussion at DVinfo.net

Josh Hayes · May 4th, 2015, 05:45 PM

Hi folks. I'm not a huge user of practical filters because I like to do a lot of that kind of thing in post. The only lens filters I usually by are UV filters just to protect the lens. However I have a 2 week outdoor shoot for a documentary coming up, and I'm expecting quite a bit of bright light. I don't want to lose all the depth of field on my lens by going up to F16 or F22 and adjusting the shutter speed to compensate. While an infinity focus shot looks good sometimes, 200 b-roll shots that have no "magic" doesn't sound appealing.

So here's my question because when I searched for a good ND discussion on the forums I could find it. A.) is there already a whole section on my following question on DVINFO.net and I just didn't find it because the search string ND is too general and shows up in words alot> B.) After doing some research, and also reading the article on here ND color shifts and things of that nature, are there some ND filters in the $100 or less range that are the best? I was just going to get some cheap $10 filters at first, but I did that with my UVs and sometimes I get lens flares I don't want so thought stepping up my budget might be smarter. Then I figured I'd just get a filter that matches my biggest lens and just get adapters for some of my smaller ones.

Either way, is there a particular trusted set that has less color change, or whatever other considerations one needs to consider about ND filters that I should consider getting?

Gary Huff · May 4th, 2015, 06:45 PM

Do you want to spend as little money or do you want to do a good job with the image? You have to know where you can cheap out a little and putting something in front of your lens is absolutely not the place you want to do it, unless you simply don't have strong feelings about how your image looks at the end of the day.

Hoya ProND is a good starter for a set of NDs, I wouldn't go cheaper than that.

Ken Plotin · May 4th, 2015, 08:19 PM

"I have a 2 week outdoor shoot for a documentary coming up, and I'm expecting quite a bit of bright light".

And add another $50 or so for a Hoya Polarizing filter. Even at it's minimal effect setting, it will cut the light by about 1 1/2 stops.
Ken

Josh Hayes · May 5th, 2015, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

Do you want to spend as little money or do you want to do a good job with the image? You have to know where you can cheap out a little and putting something in front of your lens is absolutely not the place you want to do it, unless you simply don't have strong feelings about how your image looks at the end of the day.

Hoya ProND is a good starter for a set of NDs, I wouldn't go cheaper than that.

Gary, I totally agree. That's why I'm asking sub $100 and not for the best $10 option. While I realize there's $300 options that's unrealistic for me, looking around $100 and down is my way of trying to still get a quality filter. I'll take a look at the Hoya ProND for sure!

Josh Hayes · May 5th, 2015, 12:18 AM

Ken, I hadn't thought of that, but now that you mention it, that's a great idea. Might be a silly question but when you have a good ND filter on, is there still as much need as for a circular polarizing filter?

Brian Drysdale · May 5th, 2015, 05:03 AM

A polarizing filter gives a reduction in the light passing through it, but its primary purpose is reducing reflections etc. and you can get side effects as you move camera position relative to the light. It'll do if stuck, but a ND should just do what it says on the tin, although care needs to be applied to your selection because some filters can give a colour cast and at higher densities have IR issues.

Donald McPherson · May 5th, 2015, 12:05 PM

If you are using screw ND filters consider buying a large one for your largest lens then buy stepper rings so you can use it with all your lenses.

Warren Kawamoto · May 5th, 2015, 11:10 PM

I personally don't like front mounted filters, non at all. Why? Because the moment you point your lens towards a light source, you'll see internal reflections and flare. Any speck of dust on the filter will also ruin every frame. Some filters may even vignette your wide shots. Internal and rear mounted filters are the best!

Josh Hayes · May 6th, 2015, 01:43 AM

Donald, I was shooting with a good friend of mine who just did that. That's exactly what he recommended.

Warren, we filmed a bit of footage with a variable ND Filter on a Lumix 25mm today and didn't appear to have any reflective issues. I know I've definitely seen it on the cheapie UV Filters (I always have to pop them off when in super sunny situations at the wrong angle). Perhaps I need to take a closer look, but I know a few folks who use ND filters don't do rear or internal (a concept I've never heard). However do you have a recommendation of a quality ND in that range I could peek at and compare?

Josh Hayes · May 6th, 2015, 02:18 AM

Think I'm gonna take your advice and purchase something entry level but respectable (meaning not the $10 range).

Hoya PRO-ND 62mm Variable Neutral Density Filter, 9 Stops

Brian Drysdale · May 6th, 2015, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Hayes

Perhaps I need to take a closer look, but I know a few folks who use ND filters don't do rear or internal (a concept I've never heard).

Most video cameras have internal ND filters, DSLRs and cinema digital cameras tend not to e.g the Arri Alexa, although their documentary Amira camera does.

Gary Huff · May 6th, 2015, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto

I personally don't like front mounted filters, non at all. Why? Because the moment you point your lens towards a light source, you'll see internal reflections and flare.

Wouldn't that mean that every feature film has been shot incorrectly with front mounted filters? Sometimes then even use more than one!

Jim Andrada · May 13th, 2015, 10:35 PM

I think in the feature film world they think a lot about setup, lighting control, etc - a lot more than run and gun types and normal people can do.When they use front mounted filters they know how to avoid issue.

That said, I seldom to never have problems with front mounted UV/polarizers/etc. And not sure how I'd use a rear mounted polarizer - how do you rotate it for best/desired effect if it's on the back of the lens?

May 4th, 2015, 05:45 PM	#1
Josh Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 264	Updated ND Discussion Hi folks. I'm not a huge user of practical filters because I like to do a lot of that kind of thing in post. The only lens filters I usually by are UV filters just to protect the lens. However I have a 2 week outdoor shoot for a documentary coming up, and I'm expecting quite a bit of bright light. I don't want to lose all the depth of field on my lens by going up to F16 or F22 and adjusting the shutter speed to compensate. While an infinity focus shot looks good sometimes, 200 b-roll shots that have no "magic" doesn't sound appealing. So here's my question because when I searched for a good ND discussion on the forums I could find it. A.) is there already a whole section on my following question on DVINFO.net and I just didn't find it because the search string ND is too general and shows up in words alot> B.) After doing some research, and also reading the article on here ND color shifts and things of that nature, are there some ND filters in the $100 or less range that are the best? I was just going to get some cheap $10 filters at first, but I did that with my UVs and sometimes I get lens flares I don't want so thought stepping up my budget might be smarter. Then I figured I'd just get a filter that matches my biggest lens and just get adapters for some of my smaller ones. Either way, is there a particular trusted set that has less color change, or whatever other considerations one needs to consider about ND filters that I should consider getting?

May 4th, 2015, 06:45 PM	#2
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: Updated ND Discussion Do you want to spend as little money or do you want to do a good job with the image? You have to know where you can cheap out a little and putting something in front of your lens is absolutely not the place you want to do it, unless you simply don't have strong feelings about how your image looks at the end of the day. Hoya ProND is a good starter for a set of NDs, I wouldn't go cheaper than that.

May 4th, 2015, 08:19 PM	#3
Ken Plotin Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	Re: Updated ND Discussion "I have a 2 week outdoor shoot for a documentary coming up, and I'm expecting quite a bit of bright light". And add another $50 or so for a Hoya Polarizing filter. Even at it's minimal effect setting, it will cut the light by about 1 1/2 stops. Ken

May 5th, 2015, 12:18 AM	#5
Josh Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 264	Re: Updated ND Discussion Ken, I hadn't thought of that, but now that you mention it, that's a great idea. Might be a silly question but when you have a good ND filter on, is there still as much need as for a circular polarizing filter?

May 5th, 2015, 05:03 AM	#6
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Updated ND Discussion A polarizing filter gives a reduction in the light passing through it, but its primary purpose is reducing reflections etc. and you can get side effects as you move camera position relative to the light. It'll do if stuck, but a ND should just do what it says on the tin, although care needs to be applied to your selection because some filters can give a colour cast and at higher densities have IR issues.

May 5th, 2015, 12:05 PM	#7
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: Updated ND Discussion If you are using screw ND filters consider buying a large one for your largest lens then buy stepper rings so you can use it with all your lenses.

May 5th, 2015, 11:10 PM	#8
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: Updated ND Discussion I personally don't like front mounted filters, non at all. Why? Because the moment you point your lens towards a light source, you'll see internal reflections and flare. Any speck of dust on the filter will also ruin every frame. Some filters may even vignette your wide shots. Internal and rear mounted filters are the best!

May 6th, 2015, 01:43 AM	#9
Josh Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 264	Re: Updated ND Discussion Donald, I was shooting with a good friend of mine who just did that. That's exactly what he recommended. Warren, we filmed a bit of footage with a variable ND Filter on a Lumix 25mm today and didn't appear to have any reflective issues. I know I've definitely seen it on the cheapie UV Filters (I always have to pop them off when in super sunny situations at the wrong angle). Perhaps I need to take a closer look, but I know a few folks who use ND filters don't do rear or internal (a concept I've never heard). However do you have a recommendation of a quality ND in that range I could peek at and compare?

May 6th, 2015, 02:18 AM	#10
Josh Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 264	Re: Updated ND Discussion Think I'm gonna take your advice and purchase something entry level but respectable (meaning not the $10 range). Hoya PRO-ND 62mm Variable Neutral Density Filter, 9 Stops

May 13th, 2015, 10:35 PM	#13
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Updated ND Discussion I think in the feature film world they think a lot about setup, lighting control, etc - a lot more than run and gun types and normal people can do.When they use front mounted filters they know how to avoid issue. That said, I seldom to never have problems with front mounted UV/polarizers/etc. And not sure how I'd use a rear mounted polarizer - how do you rotate it for best/desired effect if it's on the back of the lens?