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Old March 15th, 2003, 07:46 PM   #16
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Photoshop Pantone

Thanks for the info on this thread. Pantone colors are available in Photoshop. Just select the colors mentioned above as your background color for a new document and print it. I just printed mine on matte photo paper. I think it will work fine. I enjoy the technical information I recieve here and the cost saving ideas.
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Old March 16th, 2003, 02:19 AM   #17
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Hi all,

Trying to print my own 18% Grey Card from Photoshop 4.0. Would this work ?

Image>Mode>Grey Scale then Image>Adjust

and set the levels to 0 & 1.8 & 255, would this give me a 18% grey scale. I assume the middle number is a percentage as it's adjustment rate is 0.1 to 9.99.

If this works how do I print one of these warmcards? What values of Red, Yellow and Blue should one use. Or is there an easier method for both, other than buying them?

Cheers
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Old March 16th, 2003, 02:38 AM   #18
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Hi Steven,

we must have posted at the same time so I only saw your post when I posted my.

Must be thick as two bricks but can't locate the pantone colours, could be my Photoshop is too old?

Cheers
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Old March 17th, 2003, 12:01 AM   #19
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Photoshop Colors

Andrew,

I am using Photoshop 7, I don’t know if 4 has Pantone colors or not. Go to File/New/check box for Background Color/Custom/drop down arrow and Pantone Colors are in the drop down menu. The same dialog box is also available when you click on the background color box in the standard view.

Here's the approximate Pantone colors in daylight:
Warm 1 = PMS 290 C
Warm 2 = PMS 2707 C
Warm 3 = PMS 283 C

These are the Pantone colors recommended in a post above for warm cards. I don’t know enough about this to answer your question about printing your own grey card. I am very skeptical about using a grey card to white balance a video camera. Warm cards or gray card, I will tread lightly and expect differing results in every situation.

One of the reasons I enjoy this site is to learn tips from those that know the tricks that make video shine. Knowing when to tweak something or when not to is part of the art.

Steve
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Old December 13th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #20
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Here's how the Warmcards look when using an HDV camera http://link.brightcove.com/services/...bctid900554631
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Old December 13th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #21
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Guy, you've dug up a four-and-a-half-year old thread... I think that might be some kind of record.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 11:45 PM   #22
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Well someone was yelling to use the "Search" function :)
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Old December 14th, 2007, 03:10 AM   #23
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If you're printing out a card and expecting it to actually match the Pantone color chosen, you may want to reconsider.

Most printers, like most monitors, are not very color accurate. So one printer's PMS 2707 C could differ significantly from another's.
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Old December 17th, 2007, 06:34 AM   #24
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We started experimenting with the “warm look” in television with the earlier ESPN Classic Sport Century shows. Those early shows were really yellow-orange and over the years we tone them down to just a warm look. With today’s NLE editing systems creating the overall warm tone in the camera is unnecessary as it can be easily created in post but once you have it on tape is hard to get it back to normal.

I always prefer to selectively pick are of the image to be warmer by placing CTO or any warming gels on the individual lights. As example a piece of wood furniture or brass items such as trophies will look much better with some warm light on it. The added color, even if very slight, will make the objects in the image stand out from the rest thus creating dimensions and depth, a much better result than an overall tint.
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Old December 17th, 2007, 10:40 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Vaughn View Post
These are nothing more than sheets of colored paper that are laminated with non-glare plastic.
Ah yes, but there's paper, and there's paper. And how many shades of white?

I've got a set of CamAlign Warm cards after doing a workshop a few years back. We used Z1s to compare

- Standard Daylight/Tungsten settings
- White setting off a bit of photocopier paper
- White setting off a notepad
- White setting off the Warmwhite cards (white)

The difference between the standard WB settings and a proper AWB was, of course, huge. There was far more reach to the colour tonality in the reds. It was a 'rounder' setting (once you used multiple sheets of the photocopier paper).

There was a subtle but 'quality' difference between white setting off the paper and off the card. Like the above, but especially apparent when doing tricky stuff in mixed light situations (e.g. office with fluorescent and daylight) - the CamAlign looked better than the white paper.

I was sold on what I saw. Now I regularly match my PDX-10 to a brace of Z1s very accurately using the CamAlign cards (in mixed Fluoro/Tungsten/Daylight too).

FWIW I've never used anything stronger than CamWarm 1, just to address the overexpression of blues rather than a look or an effect. Notwithstanding, the subtle warm effect does cheer up dull grey English days - when you feel like you're enclosed in a tupperware sandwich box.

Yes, it was expensive for what it appears. Yes, IMHO it has been totally and utterly worth it, and if mine got trashed, I'd buy them again.
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Old December 17th, 2007, 01:53 PM   #26
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For those who have printed these cards out. What size did you find adequate? The Warmcards.com sizes seem to be 6x10, is 5x7 good enough?

The idea is just to zoom into the image so that it fills the whole frame, right?

I'm going to get my friend to print them on his professional photo printer with matte paper, and get them laminated with non-glare plastic, as suggested.
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Old December 17th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #27
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I'm sorry, but like others here I just don't get this.

Why would you pay for something to alter the accuracy of a step (white balance) that is designed to provide an ACCURATE BASELINE of what a scene objectively looks like in reality?

EVERY decent NLE today allows you to do all the "warming" or "cooling" or other color correction you'll ever need in post - up to and including taking specific colors or groups of colors (like fleshtones) and apply specific, targeted corrections to them in post.

So the usefulness of a "purposefully WRONG" White Balance card just TOTALLY escapes me.

It's as silly to my brain as that "should I overexpose or underexpose all my shots" thread.

Expose properly - Always!

And White balance properly - Always!

Save the tricky stuff for post where you can un-do it if you screw up.

My 2 cents anyway.
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Old December 17th, 2007, 07:26 PM   #28
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A small set of warm cards had been kicking around in my camera bag for years, unused, because basically I believe what Bill wrote above.

Then I volunteered to shoot a HS band competition last year in a local stadium. Brand new facility, the lights had to be mercury vapor or sodium pressure, whatever. They didn't look bad to the eye.

I could not get close to accurate color in the viewfinder with any combination of preset or custom white, until I pulled out the warmcards. Perhaps I should have tried AWB.

I might not use them again for another 6 years, but they've earned a permanent place in the bag...

BTW, I was immediately handing off the tape to a parent volunteer, so, couldn't depend on good post color correction. But in this situation I probably would have done the same thing even if I were posting it.
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Old December 17th, 2007, 08:05 PM   #29
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Bill, in both theory and practice, I understand what you're saying. But every once in awhile...

First, trusting electronic WB. Having engineered flypacks and matching multiple cameras, white balance is not always consistent. Usually close, but I've often found myself having to paint cameras a bit.

Also, I've often found under bright lights that some people, while their skin colors might be 'accurate', get bleached out. Given that many indoor types have only a fluorescent tan to begin with, adding some warmth really does help keeping talent from looking like death warmed over. And certainly for these big corporate show speeches, and for many other applications, nobody is going to take the time to do color correction in post.

And as a last thought; while I tend towards going for accuracy and playing in post, because most projects I work, I work as both shooter and editor, there are a lot of cameramen and women who strongly feel that whatever looks are to be created should be done in-camera; most cinematographers have operated this way for years.

Just some thoughts.
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Old December 18th, 2007, 09:35 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
Why would you pay for something to alter the accuracy of a step (white balance) that is designed to provide an ACCURATE BASELINE of what a scene objectively looks like in reality?
If we can back up a step, maybe reality isn't quite right when seen on a CCD.

Doing a white balance on a warmcard in lighting that's really blue-rich (sand, snow, shade) is like turning up the reds on your Proc-Amp in the truck if doing an OB. Perfectly acceptable.

And I'd like to wave the 'white balance of a decent white source' flag again. My CamAlign cards have a standard white card that's been used 90% of the time.

For those advocating the fixed daylight or tungsten settings, they serve a useful function, but nothing beats a proper WB (with proviso above), but hey - consistency is better than variability. For those advocating Auto Trace Whitebalance, I, as an editor, curse you and your heathen practice, and condemn you to manually correct your camera's wierding ways at 3:00AM whilst listening to in-depth presentations on accountancy practices. Grrrr.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
EVERY decent NLE today allows you to do all the "warming" or "cooling" or other color correction you'll ever need in post
And not every shoot has a budget for grading. A bit of buffing here and there, may be, but not necessarily full-on LOTR-style look generation.

If shooting on the basis of significant 'look generation' in post, then your shots will have to look bland, neutral and - quite frankly - flat; yet it must contain the seed of the DoP's vision so the Colorist can fertilize it and bring it to life. OTOH, if shooting a Talking Head for insert into a package, and all you've got is a bald patch of shade to shoot in, then a WarmCard is going to make the subject look healthy and vital, and it won't look like it's -20 Degrees out there.

DoPs don't use warm cards, Videographers do. DoPs can't do what videographers do - no rehearsal, no second takes, no re-lights (hey, you get lights? If only...), and you don't have to edit what you shoot.

Above meant in good humor.
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