fluorescents at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Photon Management
Shine an ever-loving light on you.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 22nd, 2007, 02:52 AM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Davao City, Philippines
Posts: 17
fluorescents

good day!

i am looking to purchase full spectrum fluorescents for my interview lighting kit.
the problem is that full spectrum lamps are hard to find in my vicinity. i've asked various electrical stores and lighting 'specialists' about full spectrum lamps and all they could point me to was warm, cool, daylight, yadda yadda fluorescents.


the prevalent brands here are Philips, GE.


i hear philips tl 950 t8 lamps are pretty decent and have a high cri rating.

does anyone here use these lamps? and if so, could you please show me a photo of its packaging so i can show the store clerks what i'm looking for. and also to use for slapping them silly if they dont carry it.



thanks a lot and i hope you guys can help me
__________________
[Chuck] XL2 with 20x lens on a Bogen/Manfrotto, PD170 with wide angle always used handheld, VX2000 also handheld, Panasonic Supercam w/ 14x Fujinon on a Cartoni, Final Cut Pro, Premiere Pro, Boris Fx, After Effects, 3D Max 7
Chuck Lozano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22nd, 2007, 05:02 AM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,570
The best lamps are Osram Studioline 55W tubes.
Any supplier trade supplier should be able to order them in for you if they deal with Osram or else contact Osram for the nearest Osram supplier.

Note though these tubes need special ballasts, sockets and tube clips.

As far as I know no tube with an integral ballast is designed for video however Natural or Daylight tubes are pretty reasonable if you want daylight, Warm White is pretty close to tungsten. None are as good as the high RI tubes but with WB the camera can usually cope. The main thing is to use all the same tubes with roughly the same hours on them.
Bob Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22nd, 2007, 12:33 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Lozano
good day!

i am looking to purchase full spectrum fluorescents for my interview lighting kit.
the problem is that full spectrum lamps are hard to find in my vicinity. i've asked various electrical stores and lighting 'specialists' about full spectrum lamps and all they could point me to was warm, cool, daylight, yadda yadda fluorescents.


the prevalent brands here are Philips, GE.


i hear philips tl 950 t8 lamps are pretty decent and have a high cri rating.

does anyone here use these lamps? and if so, could you please show me a photo of its packaging so i can show the store clerks what i'm looking for. and also to use for slapping them silly if they dont carry it.



thanks a lot and i hope you guys can help me
I live in the Philippines also. I just used those spiral flos with the daylight temp. Here's the light they produce...
http://dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.ph...2&d=1166889532
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2007, 02:40 AM   #4
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Davao City, Philippines
Posts: 17
i doubt those spiral flos can become a lightbank...
__________________
[Chuck] XL2 with 20x lens on a Bogen/Manfrotto, PD170 with wide angle always used handheld, VX2000 also handheld, Panasonic Supercam w/ 14x Fujinon on a Cartoni, Final Cut Pro, Premiere Pro, Boris Fx, After Effects, 3D Max 7
Chuck Lozano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2007, 02:51 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Lozano
i doubt those spiral flos can become a lightbank...
Why not? you put about 12 of them together in an array and they work pretty good. I'm not the first person to do it.

Also, asking for a photo of the packaging probably won't get you very far as products marketed in the Philippines are usually rebadged one way or another when the hit the American and Euro shelves.
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2007, 04:05 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,222
I like the Philips philips tl 950 T8 lamps, and they made a HUGE difference in the reds vs. the cheapo T8 lamps that came with the fixtures. I used ten banks of four T8 tubes to light my small martial arts studio. I bought an entire case of the 950's on-line, so there isn't any packaging for the individuals tubes other than the case "honeycomb".

An even less expensive solution is to buy the Philips Colortone C50 T12 lamps in a case at Home Depot. If you need only a few, just break the case instead of paying twice that by buying the same stuff in single packaging on the shelf.

As for spiral lamps, decent full-spectrum units cost about $20/each for 30W units (Sunwave, 5500K, CRI-93) . At that wattage, you don't need as many as others have indicated with the 13-18W units. I ordered a few of these last week, but I haven't received them yet.
Gints Klimanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2007, 07:50 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shenzhen, China
Posts: 781
You can find good bulbs and bad bulbs anywhere. How do you know if its good or bad? You try it and you either like or don't like the results. I've found more ones that work than ones that don't work actually. And I disagree with many of the postings about that it must be 90 CRI or more to be effective. It really depends upon what you're doing--for instance are you using film or digital media. Digital media is very forgiving. I've done entire productions with Home Depot 5500K or 3000K spiral 30w bulbs (which are generally 80CRI) and seen no ill effects in the video. Occasionally, you will find a self-ballasted CFL that flickers a bit but in all the ones I've bought I've only seen 2 that did that. Home Depot spiral fluorescents are just fine for most digital photography and video work. Film is another matter and may require more attention to your choice of bulbs.
__________________
Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114
http://www.coollights.biz
Richard Andrewski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2007, 06:16 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,222
Mr. Andrewski,

Thanks for your excellent instructional video "cool lights". Your video editing and instructional skills put that video in the top category of instructional videos. For one, I like that you didn't have those excessive head gesticulations typical of over-produced presentations.

I was surprised that you didn't mention to look for higher CRI bulbs in your video. I immediately noticed better reds when I switched to the Philips TL 950 tubes, though the absence of those colors were not noticed until a direct comparison could be made.
Gints Klimanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2007, 10:54 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shenzhen, China
Posts: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis
Mr. Andrewski,

Thanks for your excellent instructional video "cool lights". Your video editing and instructional skills put that video in the top category of instructional videos. For one, I like that you didn't have those excessive head gesticulations typical of over-produced presentations.

I was surprised that you didn't mention to look for higher CRI bulbs in your video. I immediately noticed better reds when I switched to the Philips TL 950 tubes, though the absence of those colors were not noticed until a direct comparison could be made.
Thanks for the compliments. I didn't mention CRI much because I'm not that big on CRI. One thing I did was set out to prove it wasn't so important. None of the video is shot with expensive lamps. Since I'm pusing DIY video lighting it was a natural idea to use all DIY lighting in the production of the video.

I wanted to show that you can save money all the way and that Kino Flo lamps and ballasts are not necessary. So I downplay CRI a lot. The manufacturers have really done a good job on marketing and convincing people that they have magic components that you can't get anywhere else.

I've found 80 CRI to be adequate for most uses and that's very common to find now. I really think that most people would also find this to be the case. Once you get to 85 CRI and above, the price starts to go up quite quickly. That's where its more challenging to make the bulb and not all manufacturers want to or are capable of it.

So many people are exposed to the subject for the first time on these boards and what do they read? "Well you have to have at least 90CRI and 95CRI is preferred. And its got to be Osram or Kino Flo tubes too." Too expensive and not always necessary for many uses. That's exactly why I was countering it by producing my video with all inexpensive 3500K Home Depot 30w bulbs (mostly in the clamp on worklight "scoops" and also my "halogen conversions" too).

Well, if your a pro and have a pro budget, that's fine. Perception is reality so you better look like a pro too. And why would you be doing DIY anyway as a pro?

I think I showed in the video though how you can look like a pro and build your fixtures in a certain way so as not to look too homemade. Starting out, DIY is attractive for all your tools including lighting and most of the commonly available bulbs out there are just fine as long as they don't flicker and you like the color effects on your scenes. The spirals and screw-in, self-ballasted CFLs will be the easiest ones to work with too. You can graduate to the 55w biax types later as you get more money and either buy a cost effective one or build it.
__________________
Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114
http://www.coollights.biz
Richard Andrewski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2007, 11:01 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shenzhen, China
Posts: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis
I like the Philips philips tl 950 T8 lamps, and they made a HUGE difference in the reds vs. the cheapo T8 lamps that came with the fixtures. I used ten banks of four T8 tubes to light my small martial arts studio. I bought an entire case of the 950's on-line, so there isn't any packaging for the individuals tubes other than the case "honeycomb".
Yes, but what was the color temperature of the el cheapo T8 lamps before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis
As for spiral lamps, decent full-spectrum units cost about $20/each for 30W units (Sunwave, 5500K, CRI-93) . At that wattage, you don't need as many as others have indicated with the 13-18W units. I ordered a few of these last week, but I haven't received them yet.
30w bulbs are great all by themselves. Many are surprised at how powerful a 30w fluorescent bulb really is once they start using it. I've lit many scenes with just two or three well placed 30w bulbs.
__________________
Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114
http://www.coollights.biz
Richard Andrewski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2007, 07:21 AM   #11
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Davao City, Philippines
Posts: 17
a

thanks for all your input

@ Brian

12 spirals flo's are too much in a single lightbank. might as well go buy kino flos. as I am a one man production outfit, 12 bulbs in a unit means i have to be extra careful about rattles, etc during transport and storage. too much to think about. it just bums me out that i cant get the lights i need here in Davao.

with regards to the packaging, i suppose you have a point. i dont think osrams are rebadged though. but theyre somewhat rare here, full spectrum lights i mean.


@ Richard

i agree with you with regards to CRI being overrated. there are a lot of things going on with fluorescents though that we need to consider. especially those spikes and the humming. with digital, WB becomes an ally but it's not to reliable. those spikes in color are barely undetectable in realtime but when you jog through your clip in the timeline you immediately notice the fluctuating colors. annoying. as with the humming, last i used fluos with bad ballasts, my monitors hummed like crazy.
__________________
[Chuck] XL2 with 20x lens on a Bogen/Manfrotto, PD170 with wide angle always used handheld, VX2000 also handheld, Panasonic Supercam w/ 14x Fujinon on a Cartoni, Final Cut Pro, Premiere Pro, Boris Fx, After Effects, 3D Max 7
Chuck Lozano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2007, 10:58 AM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 110
I agree Brian,
I thought I would build a light bank for the spirals but I ran across one that has 9 sockets, is only 8 inches square, weighs about 3 pounds (with bulbs) and cost about 80 bucks.
What's unique is it has 2 circuits. One switch for 5 sockets and one switch for the other four.
I put 5 N:vison Daylight (5500 kelvin) bulbs (Home Depot) in circuit 1, and 4 soft white (3300 kelvin) (Lowes) in circuit 2.
It so happens that because the Daylight bulbs have a higher CRI they put out 1300 Lumens. The Soft White put out 1600 Lumens. They're almost the same light output.
Anyhow I used the setup on Sunday on a TV Shoot in an Interior Design Company. I ended up using only the soft white bank to bring up the brightness on the models. It blew me away how bright these lights were. By the way I made side extenions out of wood to protect the bulbs and covered the inside with mylar to increase the output further.
Gary
Gary Moses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2007, 02:11 PM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Moses
I agree Brian,
I thought I would build a light bank for the spirals but I ran across one that has 9 sockets, is only 8 inches square, weighs about 3 pounds (with bulbs) and cost about 80 bucks.
What's unique is it has 2 circuits. One switch for 5 sockets and one switch for the other four.

Gary
I fabricated a pair that have 9 bulbs and fit in a 12x14 aluminum frame. It's quite compact. it has two switeches, one for 6 bulbs and the other for three. The bad thing is it's a bit of a hassle to screw and unscrew 9 bulbs (18 with two lights) for each set up and breakdown.)
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2007, 03:57 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 110
Brian, I built a 3/8 plywood fence that's just high enough to protect the bulbs. I never take the bulbs out unless I need to replace a burnt out one.
Gary
Gary Moses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2007, 07:09 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shenzhen, China
Posts: 781
We love to see pictures of DIY units! Why don't some of you post the pictures of the multibank spiral units?
__________________
Richard Andrewski - Cool Lights USA - RED #114
http://www.coollights.biz
Richard Andrewski is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Photon Management

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:10 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network