Cinemills LEDZ at DVinfo.net

Bill Busby · February 15th, 2007, 07:00 PM

http://www.cinemills.com/led.php

Does anyone have any experience with this product? The specs don't include info on light throw. Since they're local, I may swing by there some day soon, with XH-A1 in hand & do some testing & report back.

Bill

Christopher Witz · February 16th, 2007, 07:53 AM

looks promissing.... is there a price list anywhere?

Bill Busby · February 16th, 2007, 08:19 AM

Nope, & I didn't think to ask them when I emailed regarding other info. Go figure.

They did however reply to me within an hour, which is a rare thing. :)

Bill

Marshall Levy · February 16th, 2007, 01:10 PM

ooooh, interesting light, indeed.

Just called there and talked to Malcom - nice person via phone.

It's a new light that is comprised of 'only' 3 led's but situated with some sort of lens that provides an approximate throw of abotu 25 feet. Not sure the specs on light loss or anything but even if it's a minimal amount, it still would be greater than other led-based lights, but if it can't be dimmed, I wonder how it would be for up-close subjects.

The kit includes the light, three lenses, cable, and a/c adapter for $650. Not a bad price considering the other options but.....hmm......what to do, what to do.

I really need to find something SOON. I have an event in a few weeks where I cannot have lights that emit too much heat and I despise the battery-belt stuff. Having tested/used/demoed, etc. the Varizoom, VidLED, IDX, and others, and not ever using the LitePanels for serious work, I wonder how this one would compare.

Bill Busby · February 16th, 2007, 04:14 PM

*edit - Marshall*, do you have anything posts regarding your findings with the lights you mentioned? I'd be curious to know.

I'm betting the 25 feet throw is with the spot lens.

I got another email from them:

"The Ledz are also available with an Anton Bauer connector which can connect
directly to a on-board battery. The unit only draws .300 mA so will not
drain the camera.

It is also available with a seperate 12v battery and charger.

We are launching also a "4" bank and "6" bank Brute system which will be
dimmable.
A full line will be available in April and will be show-cased at NAB in Las
Vegas."

Bill

Marshall Levy · February 16th, 2007, 06:48 PM

I was wondering about the "Matthew"...but ironically, my baby's name is Matthew :)

I don't know too much more about this new llight than what's already posted and the info about the other lights and NAB is the same email he sent me as well.

I'll try to find out more and post it here.

Bill Busby · February 16th, 2007, 07:01 PM

Yea, sorry about the Matthew thing. Don't know where that came from but it is strange your kid's name is that.

I was under the impression you had used/tested the others (Varizoom, IDX, VidLED, LightPanels, etc. & was just curious about your findings.

I'm in need of something I can control (to a point anyway) with a dimmer as well & have been looking for a LED based light that has great throw distance as well as a wide angle (36-45 degrees or so), but I'm not sure they exist :-\

Bill

Marshall Levy · February 16th, 2007, 08:15 PM

Ah, figured that.

The cheapest LED solution that WORKS and I would recommend would be the VidLED lights. They have a nice, wide spread and the light is very uniform. Weight isn't bad and I took the lights apart and made my own potentiometer so I can have better dimming control; this is a personal preference as the dimming on the light works well. Battery placement can be a bit cumbersome but I just attached the batteries to the side of the camera and it balances well with an on-cam mic. Prices have gone up substantially since I first used them but they're nice lights. The throw distance, as with any LED system, will reach about 8 or so feet - comfortably - and upclose it doesn't seem to be blinding or blow out the video. A CTO is nice to use too. Prices are around $250 or so.

The IDX - egh, never liked it....sitting in the storage room collecting dust.

Varizoom - Price has gone down a bit...did a lot of testing of this light and there's a review in the new DV mag (one of the many magazines). It's a decent review and as far as the light goes, I found myself white balancing often, but it, too, is a nice light. The battery attachment is rather odd but I, again, made my own to help balance everything throughout the weight of the camera. The barndoors are plastic but work fine and it has a diffuser/cto attached as well. I found that for HDV/SD-16x9, the spread isn't as wide as the VidLED's and is somewhat spotty in the center for close-up shots (up to 5 or so feet). Throw distance is relative around 8-10 feet max. Price is around $350 I think.

I also did some minor testing with the ZyLight - expensive but depending on usage, they are great. The can be wirelessly linked together and controlled by any one light. Full color spectrum via turning a dial and the keying usage works very well. Spread is nice, throw distance is about 6-8 feet but this depends on the color range that is used. Prices average about $950 each.

LitePanels - never owned them but have heard so much mixed opinions on these. For corporate jobs, closeups, interviews, etc., it's a very versatile, well-liked light system. For social events, it supposedly has a consistent drop/range of about 8-10 feet. My concern is that with the Sony/Pana/Canon adapter plates for the batteries, unless you extend the cord and place the battery elsewhere, it can add substantial weight to the camera and both battery compartments must be used. There is an optional remote control (wired) which is nice, the new mini plus units are 20-25% brighter than the original models, and they currently have a $200 rebate.

Sony LED light - nothing formal in terms of testing by any means; seems consistent to the above lights. Available 'any day now' according to Sony...their reps have been telling me this for over eight weeks now.

I have some years in electrical engineering and used to build and design so many led-based projects but unfortunately don't have the time to make my own...but if you can figure out how to add more hours in a day, let me know and I'll make one for you :).

I might go with the LitePanels for certain reasons and if I can get to NAB this year, will check out this new one as well. The Sony one is enticing, but I don't know any specs and Sony's not even too sure.

Hope that helps!

m-

Bill Busby · February 16th, 2007, 09:35 PM

Thanks so much for your time Marshall. I appreciate that. I've been on the lookout for a LED light, but being in a for the most part a run & gun industry, I gotta have a better distance throw & wide as well, for HDV, etc.

A while back I came across the ZyLight on their website. Very innovative interesting design. However it didn't cut it with my distance requirements.

Stay in touch
Bill

Marshall Levy · February 16th, 2007, 09:50 PM

No problem. I've been bugging one of my Sony reps for months about getting a 'demo' light to test but it hasn't gotten anywhere....I'll keep you posted for sure.

No matter what you do, at least currently, no LED light will compare to a halogen-based light. Each has their own application and what tends to be recommended most for HDV cams are either the Frezzi MiniFill or NRG Varalux. These are two great lights but it means that you have a very hot-to-the-touch light and the battery belt / shoulder belt with the cables. Great lighting but it's a tad restrictive and the batteries can cost a fortune.

What I did with the VidLED's was have two stacked to the top of my cam and have a 3w 'fill' on the bottom...gorgeous shot, albiet a weird setup.

Bill Busby · February 16th, 2007, 10:43 PM

I actually have both of those plus the NRG PowerMax belts for years, with the Frezzi Dimmer as my main & the Varalux has been my backup. But I believe the Varalux has developed a problem where it seems to emit some kind of RF interference or something & haven't tested it since I last shot with my aging JVC DV500. You could see this interference in the viewfinder & on composite or y/c out.

I just got the Canon XH-A1 in Nov. & am also looking for something smaller/lighter & if these LEDZ from Cinemills pan out, they look small enough to mount at least 2 together.

I'd like to see your 3 light setup. Post a pic :)

Bill

Marius Luessi · February 23rd, 2007, 10:03 AM

It looks like that cinemills unit uses the same Fraen lens as the IDX.
http://www.fraensrl.com/prodinfo.html
Unless they improved them, they aren't that nice in their beam pattern.
But if the cinemill light is inexpensive enough, it might be a really neat light.

(BTW, thanks for the nice words regarding our VIDLED lights).

We are about to sell more LED lights, albeit not camera mountable.

Cheers,
Marius
(http://vidled.com)

February 15th, 2007, 07:00 PM	#1
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Cinemills LEDZ http://www.cinemills.com/led.php Does anyone have any experience with this product? The specs don't include info on light throw. Since they're local, I may swing by there some day soon, with XH-A1 in hand & do some testing & report back. Bill

February 16th, 2007, 04:14 PM	#5
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	edit - Marshall, do you have anything posts regarding your findings with the lights you mentioned? I'd be curious to know. I'm betting the 25 feet throw is with the spot lens. I got another email from them: "The Ledz are also available with an Anton Bauer connector which can connect directly to a on-board battery. The unit only draws .300 mA so will not drain the camera. It is also available with a seperate 12v battery and charger. We are launching also a "4" bank and "6" bank Brute system which will be dimmable. A full line will be available in April and will be show-cased at NAB in Las Vegas." Bill Last edited by Bill Busby; February 16th, 2007 at 05:54 PM.

February 16th, 2007, 07:53 AM	#2
Christopher Witz Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 591	looks promissing.... is there a price list anywhere?

February 16th, 2007, 08:19 AM	#3
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Nope, & I didn't think to ask them when I emailed regarding other info. Go figure. They did however reply to me within an hour, which is a rare thing. :) Bill

February 16th, 2007, 01:10 PM	#4
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	ooooh, interesting light, indeed. Just called there and talked to Malcom - nice person via phone. It's a new light that is comprised of 'only' 3 led's but situated with some sort of lens that provides an approximate throw of abotu 25 feet. Not sure the specs on light loss or anything but even if it's a minimal amount, it still would be greater than other led-based lights, but if it can't be dimmed, I wonder how it would be for up-close subjects. The kit includes the light, three lenses, cable, and a/c adapter for $650. Not a bad price considering the other options but.....hmm......what to do, what to do. I really need to find something SOON. I have an event in a few weeks where I cannot have lights that emit too much heat and I despise the battery-belt stuff. Having tested/used/demoed, etc. the Varizoom, VidLED, IDX, and others, and not ever using the LitePanels for serious work, I wonder how this one would compare.

February 16th, 2007, 06:48 PM	#6
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	I was wondering about the "Matthew"...but ironically, my baby's name is Matthew :) I don't know too much more about this new llight than what's already posted and the info about the other lights and NAB is the same email he sent me as well. I'll try to find out more and post it here.

February 16th, 2007, 07:01 PM	#7
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Yea, sorry about the Matthew thing. Don't know where that came from but it is strange your kid's name is that. I was under the impression you had used/tested the others (Varizoom, IDX, VidLED, LightPanels, etc. & was just curious about your findings. I'm in need of something I can control (to a point anyway) with a dimmer as well & have been looking for a LED based light that has great throw distance as well as a wide angle (36-45 degrees or so), but I'm not sure they exist :-\ Bill

February 16th, 2007, 08:15 PM	#8
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	Ah, figured that. The cheapest LED solution that WORKS and I would recommend would be the VidLED lights. They have a nice, wide spread and the light is very uniform. Weight isn't bad and I took the lights apart and made my own potentiometer so I can have better dimming control; this is a personal preference as the dimming on the light works well. Battery placement can be a bit cumbersome but I just attached the batteries to the side of the camera and it balances well with an on-cam mic. Prices have gone up substantially since I first used them but they're nice lights. The throw distance, as with any LED system, will reach about 8 or so feet - comfortably - and upclose it doesn't seem to be blinding or blow out the video. A CTO is nice to use too. Prices are around $250 or so. The IDX - egh, never liked it....sitting in the storage room collecting dust. Varizoom - Price has gone down a bit...did a lot of testing of this light and there's a review in the new DV mag (one of the many magazines). It's a decent review and as far as the light goes, I found myself white balancing often, but it, too, is a nice light. The battery attachment is rather odd but I, again, made my own to help balance everything throughout the weight of the camera. The barndoors are plastic but work fine and it has a diffuser/cto attached as well. I found that for HDV/SD-16x9, the spread isn't as wide as the VidLED's and is somewhat spotty in the center for close-up shots (up to 5 or so feet). Throw distance is relative around 8-10 feet max. Price is around $350 I think. I also did some minor testing with the ZyLight - expensive but depending on usage, they are great. The can be wirelessly linked together and controlled by any one light. Full color spectrum via turning a dial and the keying usage works very well. Spread is nice, throw distance is about 6-8 feet but this depends on the color range that is used. Prices average about $950 each. LitePanels - never owned them but have heard so much mixed opinions on these. For corporate jobs, closeups, interviews, etc., it's a very versatile, well-liked light system. For social events, it supposedly has a consistent drop/range of about 8-10 feet. My concern is that with the Sony/Pana/Canon adapter plates for the batteries, unless you extend the cord and place the battery elsewhere, it can add substantial weight to the camera and both battery compartments must be used. There is an optional remote control (wired) which is nice, the new mini plus units are 20-25% brighter than the original models, and they currently have a $200 rebate. Sony LED light - nothing formal in terms of testing by any means; seems consistent to the above lights. Available 'any day now' according to Sony...their reps have been telling me this for over eight weeks now. I have some years in electrical engineering and used to build and design so many led-based projects but unfortunately don't have the time to make my own...but if you can figure out how to add more hours in a day, let me know and I'll make one for you :). I might go with the LitePanels for certain reasons and if I can get to NAB this year, will check out this new one as well. The Sony one is enticing, but I don't know any specs and Sony's not even too sure. Hope that helps! m-

February 16th, 2007, 09:35 PM	#9
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Thanks so much for your time Marshall. I appreciate that. I've been on the lookout for a LED light, but being in a for the most part a run & gun industry, I gotta have a better distance throw & wide as well, for HDV, etc. A while back I came across the ZyLight on their website. Very innovative interesting design. However it didn't cut it with my distance requirements. Stay in touch Bill

February 16th, 2007, 09:50 PM	#10
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	No problem. I've been bugging one of my Sony reps for months about getting a 'demo' light to test but it hasn't gotten anywhere....I'll keep you posted for sure. No matter what you do, at least currently, no LED light will compare to a halogen-based light. Each has their own application and what tends to be recommended most for HDV cams are either the Frezzi MiniFill or NRG Varalux. These are two great lights but it means that you have a very hot-to-the-touch light and the battery belt / shoulder belt with the cables. Great lighting but it's a tad restrictive and the batteries can cost a fortune. What I did with the VidLED's was have two stacked to the top of my cam and have a 3w 'fill' on the bottom...gorgeous shot, albiet a weird setup.

February 16th, 2007, 10:43 PM	#11
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	I actually have both of those plus the NRG PowerMax belts for years, with the Frezzi Dimmer as my main & the Varalux has been my backup. But I believe the Varalux has developed a problem where it seems to emit some kind of RF interference or something & haven't tested it since I last shot with my aging JVC DV500. You could see this interference in the viewfinder & on composite or y/c out. I just got the Canon XH-A1 in Nov. & am also looking for something smaller/lighter & if these LEDZ from Cinemills pan out, they look small enough to mount at least 2 together. I'd like to see your 3 light setup. Post a pic :) Bill

February 23rd, 2007, 10:03 AM	#12
Marius Luessi Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 46	It looks like that cinemills unit uses the same Fraen lens as the IDX. http://www.fraensrl.com/prodinfo.html Unless they improved them, they aren't that nice in their beam pattern. But if the cinemill light is inexpensive enough, it might be a really neat light. (BTW, thanks for the nice words regarding our VIDLED lights). We are about to sell more LED lights, albeit not camera mountable. Cheers, Marius (http://vidled.com)