Kick Boxing Commercial at DVinfo.net

Bryan Mitchell · March 27th, 2004, 01:15 AM

cut A
cut B

Which do you like better, or tell me if you hate them both. I still have to add the voice over, and overlay text. But before I do that, I'd like feedback on this.

I'm getting mixed opinions as to which some like better, and feedback about it not even looking like a commercial. More professional advice from this board is what I need.

Thanks,
Bryan Mitchell

Robert Knecht Schmidt · March 27th, 2004, 01:37 AM

As an editing piece, I like both of them. (Nice job.) As a shooting piece, it's clear that thoughtful planning went into the work, but with better-sketched lighting (and more light overall), the interiors could have been presented with more depth and detail.

- The car has the logo printed on it, which I assume is why you're showing it in both spots, but unless you're also getting paid by the auto detailer, or members get free joyrides, it's off-message and it takes the viewer's mind away from the point of the ad. Cut the car (a distraction) and start with the cool rotating building of ad B.
- The rapid-fire punches of ad B may be a little too violent. One assumes they ought to be interested in becoming a client to improve their boxing skill, not to get the bejesus kicked out of them their first time there. The beginning of ad A contains some shots of strapping on boxing gloves, and this is a theme that ought to be developed. "Getting ready for the fight," "outfitting oneself for battle" is a psychologically powerful motif that could be employed with substantially more effect. How fun is it in movies to observe the heroes strapping on their armor and sheathing their swords, or loading up their guns (chk-chk!)? No one can forget Rocky drinking his eggs and jogging in place at the top of the steps of the art museum. (You did that steadicam shot, didn't you Charles Papert? ;-D )
- As I mentioned before, the lighting could be improved, and there are in particular two dim shots that could use reshooting if possible, the bench-press and the--well, the small punching bag, the proper name escapes me at the moment... Also, the shot of calisthenics with the bloomed windows in the background makes the foreground (subject) appear dark.
- It seems you have two fly-bys of empty punching bags in ad B. Excise the first.
- I like the ending of ad A.

If one or other other must be chosen, it's ad A. But darling as it is, the car needs to go.

Keith Loh · March 27th, 2004, 12:31 PM

Not enough girl. Cut fatty out.

In Cut B I like that first bit where you Matrix around the corner of the building.

But I like the fast dolly in past the bags faster in Cut A than the dolly in in Cut B.

Cut A overall is better and tighter.

There's one shot in both cuts where some dude is pumping iron and it is really dark, too dark. I think that guy is black too so it doesn't help seeing him.

I don't mind having the car in it. It makes the place look like they have money and aren't cheap.

I would end them both on a title card with the logo and contact information.

Nicholi Brossia · March 27th, 2004, 12:41 PM

Robert made some good points. I like the quicker pace and those building shots that Keith mentioned. Although, if it weren't for you saying it was a commercial, I wouldn't have figured that out. Not because it looks bad or anything, but because it doesn't seem to take the "come work out at Vegas Boxing" approach. Contact information will help a lot, and maybe some short narration or text throughout the commercial describing what's going on or key features of the gym. Basically you want to gain interest with action shots, which you've done, but also inform.

George Ellis · March 27th, 2004, 01:39 PM

Hmmm... My thoughts were to lose the car. It does not place the business. The matrix around the build in B is good. I would cut the pullout from the build in the end for a more full frame - if folks are driving to the location, that is what they will see. The matrix brands it, so you could use the speeded up doll by the punching bag to show what they have (If you went with A, the slow helps brand it. Remember, you want them to remember "Vegas".

The ring action is cool as is the equipment use.

Kevin Burnfield · March 27th, 2004, 02:49 PM

who are you orienting this commercial to is probably my best place to start.

People who want to get into shape? People who want to learn to kick ass? People who want to learn how to defend themselves....?

based on that answer I would re-cut it.

My thoughts might be that If it's toward people who want to get into shape, take out most of the contact. Those kind of people probably don't want to even consider the idea of someone kicking back at them.

In that area I would also have more group shots of people learning... a smile or two.

People want to be around happy people .

I'd agree with George, for a 30 second spot, lose the car.

If it's for more hard core people: make it more bag work, some impressive kick katas and some contact work.

I would just orient it more toward a specific group but then again you may want to take all of the above into mind when cutting.

James Nyfeler · March 27th, 2004, 08:45 PM

Good comments, Kevin: first determine your audience. That will help you determine what to include.

The reason it doesn't feel like a commercial is that you aren't asking the viewer to do anything. Typically, you'd be encouraging them to get in shape, or learn to protect yourself, or get at the top of your game.

I like close ups of people doing the kick boxing -- either sparring with each other, or on the bag. And, although your audience doesn't always allow it, you should focus on the pretty people -- men and women. Even if a guy is a great kickboxer, for a commercial, if he is unattractive, then the spot will have a lot less appeal.

You should add text throughout to convince the viewer to do something.

Barry Gribble · March 28th, 2004, 08:34 AM

I prefer cut A... it just gives me a better... almost safer... feeling about the place... Cut B is visually interesting, but if the goal is to get someone to walk in to the place for the first time I think that cut B is not encouraging to the timid....

I will be very interested to see what the text of the VO is...

Good luck.

Mike Posehn · March 28th, 2004, 10:55 AM

Good job, I like B better, just a few comments....
As a martial artist with some kickboxing experience, I didn't see anything too violent in either spot. In fact I think there wasn't enough boxing action. I'd say eliminate the weight lifting and other workout clips and put in more kickboxing or bag work. The boxers should be wearing headgear (to show they're not crazy) and show some light contact with kicking!

Josh Brusin · March 28th, 2004, 12:38 PM

I think it's funny that those guys on the treadmills are all wearing jeans... maybe that's the point but it cut b the guy in the middle looks like he has serious rhythm problems... I think you need to keep the cardio sections in and hate to say it maybe reshoot them as a more structred class-like environment. It looks like a corner gym and in the world of Crunch, Ballys, Golds, etc... professionalism sells after all they are shooting a spot... The boxing cuts are fine but at the beginning of cut B it looks like guys (also in jeans) horsing around.

The jeans and t-shirt types fit in there but you need to show the more typical club goer... maybe some people who are more in shape...?

nicely paced edit though!

John Locke · March 28th, 2004, 08:24 PM

It's good to hear everyone's opinion about what to include... but it boils down to what the client wants the viewer to see. I'd imagine he/she was wanting to show the full range of what they have to offer, rather than focusing on just kickboxing or just working out.

Bryan, what kind of guidelines did they give you before shooting?

Bryan Mitchell · March 28th, 2004, 10:26 PM

Yeah, it wasn't exactly the most organized thing to begin with. The car is probably going to end up staying in because my goal is to sell this to him, and it was his idea to film the car. When I showed up, he was suppose to have a full/packed studio, as he had asked many of his students to come it. I got a release for everyone in there, but only about 10 people came in. Also, no one wanted to do a fight in the ring. So the two fools in the ring in white shirts are me and my brother :). I would guess he wants a wide variety of everything in the commercial because he watched me film the whole thing, and went around to the different parts to "act" on the equipment. Right now I'm trying to get him to come up with specifics/ a script for the voice over which I'll be doing as soon as I can.

There are some very good suggestions in here, so I'm going to try to recut this right now.

Thank you all,
Bryan Mitchell

Kirill Bichutsky · April 12th, 2004, 09:52 PM

I liked both videos... but I am leaning more towards video B. However, I had one question about Video A...

In the beginning, when you had a shot of the top of the building and then there was a weird pan to another side of the building... a sort of morph?!

HOW DID YOU DO THAT?

I like that effect and it's bugging me - how to do that.

Thanks!

Edward Natale · April 12th, 2004, 10:52 PM

Being in the advertising business as well as making my early living off of low budget television commercials, I feel your pain. I know what its like to be promised a packed house and show up to 3 or 4 people. I know what its like to have to shoot in a small confined area flooded with blown out windows and not having a grip truck to bring in a 20 foot wide scrim.

That being said, I like both cuts. I think either will work fine, although I too am intrigued by the wiz around the building. Very nice.

I would also leave the car in for marketing purposes. Show the car for a split second, and who knows, maybe someone will see the car out and about on the streets of vegas and connect it with the commercial ("Theres that car from that really cool commercial!!"(you never know)). Thats 2 exposures for the client for the price of one.

Also, don't ever think for a second that you know what a customer wants until you ask them. How do you know that punching a bag will be too violent for bob the overweight computer programmer who is tired of getting picked on by the cooler sales executives around the water cooler? Maybe his motivation to visit the gym is the thought of pulverizing the entire sales staff and taking off to tijuana with the hot administrative assitant. You never know, even if you think you know.

In marketing, using any sort of common sense is a waste of energy. I used to think that poor people didnt buy four thousand dollar bedroom sets. Then I met my mother in law. I used to think that poor struggling college students with minimum wage jobs didnt buy two thousand dollar laptops. Then I met my brother in law.

Research. Ask at least 100 current customers why they are there and then go from there. Then at least you'll see some sort of a trend. For me, its fun to guess what i think the customer wants or their reason for purchasing, and then see how far off i am when the numbers are crunched.

Oh, and I agree, more of the hot chick please.

Eddie

Bryan Mitchell · April 13th, 2004, 01:00 AM

http://www.salefx.com/index.php?file...ie=vegasBoxing

Here is the third cut. I sent this one on dvd to the owner, but he's been out of town. I'll probably hear from him tommorow though.

The spin in the begging around the building:

I took video of each of the 3 angles.
I took a single frame at the end of angle 1,
a single frame from angle 2, and
a single frame form the beginning of angle 3.

I used a program called Magic Morph - only $20 (but i made it during free trial of program)

It lets you take 2 pictures, and create a morph between the 2. By plotting points in certain areas, you can get the picture to morph the way you want it to.

I did this between pic 1 and 2, and 2 and 3.

I then took video 1, added morph 1-2, paused on image 2, morph 2-3 paused on image 3, then finished up with video 3.

I hope that made sense. It's late, and I've been up for more than 20 hours working on schoolwork.

March 27th, 2004, 01:15 AM	#1
Bryan Mitchell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	Kick Boxing Commercial cut A cut B Which do you like better, or tell me if you hate them both. I still have to add the voice over, and overlay text. But before I do that, I'd like feedback on this. I'm getting mixed opinions as to which some like better, and feedback about it not even looking like a commercial. More professional advice from this board is what I need. Thanks, Bryan Mitchell

March 27th, 2004, 01:37 AM	#2
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	As an editing piece, I like both of them. (Nice job.) As a shooting piece, it's clear that thoughtful planning went into the work, but with better-sketched lighting (and more light overall), the interiors could have been presented with more depth and detail. - The car has the logo printed on it, which I assume is why you're showing it in both spots, but unless you're also getting paid by the auto detailer, or members get free joyrides, it's off-message and it takes the viewer's mind away from the point of the ad. Cut the car (a distraction) and start with the cool rotating building of ad B. - The rapid-fire punches of ad B may be a little too violent. One assumes they ought to be interested in becoming a client to improve their boxing skill, not to get the bejesus kicked out of them their first time there. The beginning of ad A contains some shots of strapping on boxing gloves, and this is a theme that ought to be developed. "Getting ready for the fight," "outfitting oneself for battle" is a psychologically powerful motif that could be employed with substantially more effect. How fun is it in movies to observe the heroes strapping on their armor and sheathing their swords, or loading up their guns (chk-chk!)? No one can forget Rocky drinking his eggs and jogging in place at the top of the steps of the art museum. (You did that steadicam shot, didn't you Charles Papert? ;-D ) - As I mentioned before, the lighting could be improved, and there are in particular two dim shots that could use reshooting if possible, the bench-press and the--well, the small punching bag, the proper name escapes me at the moment... Also, the shot of calisthenics with the bloomed windows in the background makes the foreground (subject) appear dark. - It seems you have two fly-bys of empty punching bags in ad B. Excise the first. - I like the ending of ad A. If one or other other must be chosen, it's ad A. But darling as it is, the car needs to go. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 27th, 2004, 12:31 PM	#3
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	Not enough girl. Cut fatty out. In Cut B I like that first bit where you Matrix around the corner of the building. But I like the fast dolly in past the bags faster in Cut A than the dolly in in Cut B. Cut A overall is better and tighter. There's one shot in both cuts where some dude is pumping iron and it is really dark, too dark. I think that guy is black too so it doesn't help seeing him. I don't mind having the car in it. It makes the place look like they have money and aren't cheap. I would end them both on a title card with the logo and contact information. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

March 27th, 2004, 12:41 PM	#4
Nicholi Brossia Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 389	Robert made some good points. I like the quicker pace and those building shots that Keith mentioned. Although, if it weren't for you saying it was a commercial, I wouldn't have figured that out. Not because it looks bad or anything, but because it doesn't seem to take the "come work out at Vegas Boxing" approach. Contact information will help a lot, and maybe some short narration or text throughout the commercial describing what's going on or key features of the gym. Basically you want to gain interest with action shots, which you've done, but also inform. __________________ Nicholi Brossia

March 28th, 2004, 10:55 AM	#9
Mike Posehn New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Penryn Posts: 14	Good job, I like B better, just a few comments.... As a martial artist with some kickboxing experience, I didn't see anything too violent in either spot. In fact I think there wasn't enough boxing action. I'd say eliminate the weight lifting and other workout clips and put in more kickboxing or bag work. The boxers should be wearing headgear (to show they're not crazy) and show some light contact with kicking! __________________ Mike www.placerqatsi.com www.dogsleap.com

March 27th, 2004, 01:39 PM	#5
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Hmmm... My thoughts were to lose the car. It does not place the business. The matrix around the build in B is good. I would cut the pullout from the build in the end for a more full frame - if folks are driving to the location, that is what they will see. The matrix brands it, so you could use the speeded up doll by the punching bag to show what they have (If you went with A, the slow helps brand it. Remember, you want them to remember "Vegas". The ring action is cool as is the equipment use.

March 27th, 2004, 02:49 PM	#6
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	who are you orienting this commercial to is probably my best place to start. People who want to get into shape? People who want to learn to kick ass? People who want to learn how to defend themselves....? based on that answer I would re-cut it. My thoughts might be that If it's toward people who want to get into shape, take out most of the contact. Those kind of people probably don't want to even consider the idea of someone kicking back at them. In that area I would also have more group shots of people learning... a smile or two. People want to be around happy people . I'd agree with George, for a 30 second spot, lose the car. If it's for more hard core people: make it more bag work, some impressive kick katas and some contact work. I would just orient it more toward a specific group but then again you may want to take all of the above into mind when cutting.

March 27th, 2004, 08:45 PM	#7
James Nyfeler Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 32	Good comments, Kevin: first determine your audience. That will help you determine what to include. The reason it doesn't feel like a commercial is that you aren't asking the viewer to do anything. Typically, you'd be encouraging them to get in shape, or learn to protect yourself, or get at the top of your game. I like close ups of people doing the kick boxing -- either sparring with each other, or on the bag. And, although your audience doesn't always allow it, you should focus on the pretty people -- men and women. Even if a guy is a great kickboxer, for a commercial, if he is unattractive, then the spot will have a lot less appeal. You should add text throughout to convince the viewer to do something.

March 28th, 2004, 08:34 AM	#8
Barry Gribble Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 817	I prefer cut A... it just gives me a better... almost safer... feeling about the place... Cut B is visually interesting, but if the goal is to get someone to walk in to the place for the first time I think that cut B is not encouraging to the timid.... I will be very interested to see what the text of the VO is... Good luck.

March 28th, 2004, 12:38 PM	#10
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	I think it's funny that those guys on the treadmills are all wearing jeans... maybe that's the point but it cut b the guy in the middle looks like he has serious rhythm problems... I think you need to keep the cardio sections in and hate to say it maybe reshoot them as a more structred class-like environment. It looks like a corner gym and in the world of Crunch, Ballys, Golds, etc... professionalism sells after all they are shooting a spot... The boxing cuts are fine but at the beginning of cut B it looks like guys (also in jeans) horsing around. The jeans and t-shirt types fit in there but you need to show the more typical club goer... maybe some people who are more in shape...? nicely paced edit though!

March 28th, 2004, 08:24 PM	#11
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	It's good to hear everyone's opinion about what to include... but it boils down to what the client wants the viewer to see. I'd imagine he/she was wanting to show the full range of what they have to offer, rather than focusing on just kickboxing or just working out. Bryan, what kind of guidelines did they give you before shooting? __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

March 28th, 2004, 10:26 PM	#12
Bryan Mitchell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	Yeah, it wasn't exactly the most organized thing to begin with. The car is probably going to end up staying in because my goal is to sell this to him, and it was his idea to film the car. When I showed up, he was suppose to have a full/packed studio, as he had asked many of his students to come it. I got a release for everyone in there, but only about 10 people came in. Also, no one wanted to do a fight in the ring. So the two fools in the ring in white shirts are me and my brother :). I would guess he wants a wide variety of everything in the commercial because he watched me film the whole thing, and went around to the different parts to "act" on the equipment. Right now I'm trying to get him to come up with specifics/ a script for the voice over which I'll be doing as soon as I can. There are some very good suggestions in here, so I'm going to try to recut this right now. Thank you all, Bryan Mitchell

April 12th, 2004, 09:52 PM	#13
Kirill Bichutsky New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Succasunna, NJ Posts: 15	I liked both videos... but I am leaning more towards video B. However, I had one question about Video A... In the beginning, when you had a shot of the top of the building and then there was a weird pan to another side of the building... a sort of morph?! HOW DID YOU DO THAT? I like that effect and it's bugging me - how to do that. Thanks!

April 12th, 2004, 10:52 PM	#14
Edward Natale Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 43	Being in the advertising business as well as making my early living off of low budget television commercials, I feel your pain. I know what its like to be promised a packed house and show up to 3 or 4 people. I know what its like to have to shoot in a small confined area flooded with blown out windows and not having a grip truck to bring in a 20 foot wide scrim. That being said, I like both cuts. I think either will work fine, although I too am intrigued by the wiz around the building. Very nice. I would also leave the car in for marketing purposes. Show the car for a split second, and who knows, maybe someone will see the car out and about on the streets of vegas and connect it with the commercial ("Theres that car from that really cool commercial!!"(you never know)). Thats 2 exposures for the client for the price of one. Also, don't ever think for a second that you know what a customer wants until you ask them. How do you know that punching a bag will be too violent for bob the overweight computer programmer who is tired of getting picked on by the cooler sales executives around the water cooler? Maybe his motivation to visit the gym is the thought of pulverizing the entire sales staff and taking off to tijuana with the hot administrative assitant. You never know, even if you think you know. In marketing, using any sort of common sense is a waste of energy. I used to think that poor people didnt buy four thousand dollar bedroom sets. Then I met my mother in law. I used to think that poor struggling college students with minimum wage jobs didnt buy two thousand dollar laptops. Then I met my brother in law. Research. Ask at least 100 current customers why they are there and then go from there. Then at least you'll see some sort of a trend. For me, its fun to guess what i think the customer wants or their reason for purchasing, and then see how far off i am when the numbers are crunched. Oh, and I agree, more of the hot chick please. Eddie

April 13th, 2004, 01:00 AM	#15
Bryan Mitchell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 316	http://www.salefx.com/index.php?file...ie=vegasBoxing Here is the third cut. I sent this one on dvd to the owner, but he's been out of town. I'll probably hear from him tommorow though. The spin in the begging around the building: I took video of each of the 3 angles. I took a single frame at the end of angle 1, a single frame from angle 2, and a single frame form the beginning of angle 3. I used a program called Magic Morph - only $20 (but i made it during free trial of program) It lets you take 2 pictures, and create a morph between the 2. By plotting points in certain areas, you can get the picture to morph the way you want it to. I did this between pic 1 and 2, and 2 and 3. I then took video 1, added morph 1-2, paused on image 2, morph 2-3 paused on image 3, then finished up with video 3. I hope that made sense. It's late, and I've been up for more than 20 hours working on schoolwork.