Bruges on the gh3

Noa Put · March 9th, 2014, 03:01 PM

Quote:

The original footage out of the camera is fine but after light grading - color correction, light sharpening and levels adjustment - and then rendering off to AVCHD this is what I see.

If you don't do any post processing and just render the file out untouched, do you also get this kind of artifacts? Not sure if what I am seeing is the result of the adjustments you make in post but rather due to something not right during rendering.

I am curious though, do you think you can make the raw clip directly from the card, which displays the problem, available for download, if it's not too big? Just to see what happens if I push it around in Edius and render it out, to see if the same problem occurs?

John McCully · March 9th, 2014, 03:20 PM

Thanks, that would be great. Tell you what; I will trim out a section in Play Memories Home and save without rendering. The original clip is way to large to upload (given my less than wonderful Internet connection) and upload to my Vimeo page. Should be done in an hour or so.

I might mention that the distance from the camera to the bush in the background is just over 3 kilometers and it was a hot day with lots of atmospheric interference as you will see.

I'm still playing around with Vegas Pro 12 to find the best render option. You input with Edius will be most appreciated.

Cheers...

Noa Put · March 10th, 2014, 01:44 AM

I downloaded the clip and did some colorcorrection and added 15% sharpness, must say that was allready a very taxing image, the moving water and distorting air by the heat, so any adjustment you"d make will magnify any artifact, especially if you sharpen, here I think incamera sharpening would be a better option, but not sure about that, have a look and tell me what you think. I exported to a 17mb mp4.

Can you pm me a emailadres I should send the video to?

John McCully · March 10th, 2014, 01:54 PM

Done, thanks Noa. Yes, not an easy scene to shoot. I shall certainly give in-camera sharpening a go and see if that helps. The artifacts that bother me are really only the blockiness in the distant bush. Thus far the best fix is to render as XDCAM 35mpbp 29.97p.

I might just pull out and crank up the BMPCC and see how ProRes handles that stuff...

Noa Put · March 10th, 2014, 04:11 PM

File has been send, interested to know what you think.

John McCully · March 10th, 2014, 04:49 PM

Thanks again, Noa. I see in the distant bush a pulsing at a frequency of about one second not unlike with my render though perhaps not as severe. I played your file on both my computers using two different media players and the artifacts were consistent. I believe it is a function of the AVCHD re-encoding though I really don't know for sure.

Further experimentation and I find the Sony XDCAM 35mbps overcomes this problem and the file looks as good in every other way.

I also rendered off a version using the XAVC S codec and it looked good however the file size is 2x the regular AVCHD file size. The XDCAM render might be the best option overall at about half the file size of the XAVC S file.

I shot a similar scene using the BMPCC using the ProRes codec and while the blockiness is not visible those same areas are quite noisy, too noisy in fact, but I'm not done experimenting yet.

John McCully · March 10th, 2014, 11:46 PM

Noa, my apologies for taking this thread off-topic even if you were somewhat complicit, for which I am grateful :-) and this post is to share what appears to be good news: Seems the in-camera sharpening did the trick. Today I went a-shooting once more and this time I set the in-camera sharpening to plus 2 following Dan Carter's approach. I know one swallow does not a summer make and today was not exactly high science however no sign of of the terrible blockiness after color correcting and levels adjustment in post. No sharpening in post means no problems perhaps, or at least much reduced.

I shall pursue this approach and report in due course, in a new thread.

Many thanks again for your help.

And now back to your lovely GH3 video shot in such a delightful setting so far away in time and space from the Marlborough Sounds of New Zealand.

Maybe there is a GH4 in my future...

Noa Put · March 11th, 2014, 12:59 AM

I just also looked at the boat footage on a big screen before and after correction and like you said the 15% sharpening I applied to it caused "pulsing" of that fine detail, so it appears in post sharpening is something you definitely would do do with this camera, avchd codec camera settings are best set in camera for best results to get the most artifact free image to start with if you plan on correcting further in post.

March 9th, 2014, 03:20 PM	#17
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Bruges on the gh3 Thanks, that would be great. Tell you what; I will trim out a section in Play Memories Home and save without rendering. The original clip is way to large to upload (given my less than wonderful Internet connection) and upload to my Vimeo page. Should be done in an hour or so. I might mention that the distance from the camera to the bush in the background is just over 3 kilometers and it was a hot day with lots of atmospheric interference as you will see. I'm still playing around with Vegas Pro 12 to find the best render option. You input with Edius will be most appreciated. Cheers...

March 10th, 2014, 01:44 AM	#18
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Bruges on the gh3 I downloaded the clip and did some colorcorrection and added 15% sharpness, must say that was allready a very taxing image, the moving water and distorting air by the heat, so any adjustment you"d make will magnify any artifact, especially if you sharpen, here I think incamera sharpening would be a better option, but not sure about that, have a look and tell me what you think. I exported to a 17mb mp4. Can you pm me a emailadres I should send the video to?

March 10th, 2014, 01:54 PM	#19
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Bruges on the gh3 Done, thanks Noa. Yes, not an easy scene to shoot. I shall certainly give in-camera sharpening a go and see if that helps. The artifacts that bother me are really only the blockiness in the distant bush. Thus far the best fix is to render as XDCAM 35mpbp 29.97p. I might just pull out and crank up the BMPCC and see how ProRes handles that stuff...

March 10th, 2014, 04:11 PM	#20
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Bruges on the gh3 File has been send, interested to know what you think.

March 10th, 2014, 04:49 PM	#21
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Bruges on the gh3 Thanks again, Noa. I see in the distant bush a pulsing at a frequency of about one second not unlike with my render though perhaps not as severe. I played your file on both my computers using two different media players and the artifacts were consistent. I believe it is a function of the AVCHD re-encoding though I really don't know for sure. Further experimentation and I find the Sony XDCAM 35mbps overcomes this problem and the file looks as good in every other way. I also rendered off a version using the XAVC S codec and it looked good however the file size is 2x the regular AVCHD file size. The XDCAM render might be the best option overall at about half the file size of the XAVC S file. I shot a similar scene using the BMPCC using the ProRes codec and while the blockiness is not visible those same areas are quite noisy, too noisy in fact, but I'm not done experimenting yet.

March 10th, 2014, 11:46 PM	#22
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Bruges on the gh3 Noa, my apologies for taking this thread off-topic even if you were somewhat complicit, for which I am grateful :-) and this post is to share what appears to be good news: Seems the in-camera sharpening did the trick. Today I went a-shooting once more and this time I set the in-camera sharpening to plus 2 following Dan Carter's approach. I know one swallow does not a summer make and today was not exactly high science however no sign of of the terrible blockiness after color correcting and levels adjustment in post. No sharpening in post means no problems perhaps, or at least much reduced. I shall pursue this approach and report in due course, in a new thread. Many thanks again for your help. And now back to your lovely GH3 video shot in such a delightful setting so far away in time and space from the Marlborough Sounds of New Zealand. Maybe there is a GH4 in my future...

March 11th, 2014, 12:59 AM	#23
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Bruges on the gh3 I just also looked at the boat footage on a big screen before and after correction and like you said the 15% sharpening I applied to it caused "pulsing" of that fine detail, so it appears in post sharpening is something you definitely would do do with this camera, avchd codec camera settings are best set in camera for best results to get the most artifact free image to start with if you plan on correcting further in post.