Feature Requests

Jason Rodriguez · May 29th, 2006, 12:54 PM

Ari, the reason for the flip is that the ground-glass converters "flip" the image as they project it onto the ground-glass (you're filming the actual ground-glass projected image, that's why you get the 35mm-like DOF), unless you place another lens or prism in the optical path to "flip" the image so that it appears straight again.

Right now, since the optical axis of the Silicon HD-Mini is not in the center of the camera head, flipping the camera head will make the camera incompatible with a variety of accessories that are expecting certain standard heights and distances to/from the optical axis.

Ari Presler · May 29th, 2006, 06:15 PM

Yes...Ground glass converter support...forgot about that! Should we put this on the "A" list for first release (Jason?)

Mark Donnell · May 29th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Ari - My goals for this camera are small in comparison to your other users. For me, I am willing to spend more money for a higher class camcorder that has 1080p, hard-drive recording and your innovative codec. I am a serious hobbiest and don't need to make money with this unit. Initially, I intend to record sports events, dog shows, perhaps eventually moving on to short documentaries, especially outdoor scenics. For this, I'll need a good but relatively small zoom lens, perhaps 13 or 16x, a good eyepiece-type viewfinder, no LCD, and a light nimble body that can be tripod or monopod mounted. Optical image stabilization of the lens would be desirable. The hard-drive recorder and battery could be separate from the body and kept in a bag at the base of the tripod to reduce the size and weight of the camera head. Am I looking at the wrong unit for my needs ?

Yasser Kassana · May 30th, 2006, 03:27 AM

WoW, you guys actually listen and you listen live. I'm impressed Ari and Jason. The preview screen 180 flip would be awesome. Also, perhaps working in conjunction with an adapter maker, i.e. Jonathan Houser from Cinemek, might reap some rewards....

Ari Presler · May 30th, 2006, 06:21 AM

Yasser,

Can you forward me contact information for Jonathan Houser. I will discuss opportunities for collaboration.

Ari

Glenn Gipson · May 30th, 2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Presler

Yasser,

Can you forward me contact information for Jonathan Houser. I will discuss opportunities for collaboration.

Ari

They have a really nice adapter, but beware Ari, they have SERIOUS delivery issues. They were suppose to have delivered that product AGES ago, and still haven't. Seriously consider the maker of the Letus35.

Ari Presler · May 30th, 2006, 07:52 AM

Will can support any GGC supplier. I am not sure we can make any specific recommendation, unless a design can yield specific or unique results with our cameras - becuase it is better suited - if there is such a device.

Glenn, any contact info?

Glenn Gipson · May 30th, 2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Presler

Will can support any GGC supplier. I am not sure we can make any specific recommendation, unless a design can yield specific or unique results with our cameras - becuase it is better suited - if there is such a device.

Glenn, any contact info?

Here you go:

http://www.letus35.com/contacts.html

There is a lot on his adapters here at Dvinfo, you just have to check under the "Alternative Imaging Methods" forum. There are also some examples in the Image gallery, but like you said, I'm not too sure why your camera would be any different from any other 2/3" camera. I suppose the 180 degree flip in the viewfinder is the best you can do.

Yasser Kassana · May 30th, 2006, 09:37 AM

In defence of cinemek, those guys have some serious integrity, they could have sold beta units, half assed units whatever, but they refuse to do so, they will only deliver an exceptional quality product. No messing around, plug n play and bespoke units, unlike the rest of the adapters. Now i'm not a spokepersons for cinemek, I just believe in the product very much and in no way present their view, just my opinion.

Giuseppe Pugliese · May 30th, 2006, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Donnell

Ari - I would hope that it would not be much larger than the HVX-200, which at the current time would be the other camera which I might purchase. Anything larger than that would be a bit cumbersome for me. I really like the approach that your company has taken to this camera, and if possible I will go with your unit.

I don’t believe that smaller is better for this camera, The prototype that I’ve seen being used, is a perfect size I think, it looks nice and big. I am used to working with BIG expensive cameras and even some film. These cameras are heavy and big, thats NOT a bad thing... They stabilize the image being shot, add to the ruggedness, LOOK PROFESSONAL, use professional 3rd party attachments (matte boxs. ect....) There are lots of advantages for a big camera in stabilization, including shoulder mounted shooting as well.

I think these little small cameras like the hvx are way to consumer targeted rather than professional use. Sure its great to be able to run around with the camera in one hand and shoot, but thats not what serious filmmakers do... We use dollies, big tripods, steadicams, cranes, and many more things to mount our cameras on and create the motion of a film. I think if you are going to offer a seriously good camera, (which you already have) you should keep it on the serious side. Perhaps make 2 kinds, one thats small and handheld and one that’s larger with more guts, and possibley more features. that way the price and options hit both sides of the shooting crowd.

I think the prototype you guys have is a thing of beauty, it looks like a Moviecam, or an Arri system, that will appeal to the serious shooters who will absolutely fall in love with this camera, in the way it shoots, captures, and looks!

Ari Presler · May 30th, 2006, 08:05 PM

Giuseppe...thank you for the input. I am wondering if we can get the best of both worlds with the Silicon Mini with a tethered recording system.

Here is the rig the Spoon team built. We would like to build some commercial devices.

Anyone for some input?

Giuseppe Pugliese · May 30th, 2006, 09:20 PM

the only concern I would see for a tethered system is for steadicam work, and possibly a problem with someone tripping on this wire, yanking and killing an expensive camera. I have worked on camera ideas myself, using CAD programs to design my own. There is always a middle ground, the hard part is finding it.

the system they used on "Spoon" with the Wafian, was brilliant. It worked for what they needed it to do. I honestly think that if the price is set right, people will be willing to have a tethered system, if the footage will be as good as it is now.

There are lots of filmmakers out there who want to shoot some great films, but are limited by money, and only money. These independent filmmakers are known for their ability to "make it work even if its broken". They might not worry in the least about a tethered system, as long as they are promised the footage will look great.

You could make the camera lens mount and chip to be detachable from the main body, and have a cable that runs to it. Just like they have on spoon, only it would be tethered to that same body, this way the big camera can be sold, but they can use it just like the spoon guys did… instead of using the Wafian, they just use the big camera body as the recorder instead of the body.

I personally would love to be able to use the prototype you guys have already made… it seems to be spitting out some great footage, and at a data rate that can be managed easily. That’s exactly the type of camera I would love to shoot my feature “Roundabout” with. Who knows within the next few months I might call you guys up and want to use this instead of the HD100.

Yasser Kassana · May 31st, 2006, 02:10 AM

I second Giuseppe Pugliese last write. However, I do feel for the independent community who want to do alot of hand held work or steadicam work, it should be that heavy, i mean sure i've seen the EVE on a steadicam, but that's one expensive steadicam! Also, I don't fully agree that pro-equipment has to be that heavy, nowadays movies like Bourne supremacy, the new world etc, are all shot hand held and steadicam, panavision don't just make HUGE cameras, they make portable ones as well. So it might be a good idea to have both as an option a mini and michael jordan size.

Giuseppe Pugliese · May 31st, 2006, 02:59 AM

I agree, I guess when I said I liked heavy, I was talking about the mid size ENG weight cameras. I think they have the right balance of bulk and size. I just don’t like to see good equipment get small to the point where it actually affects how you shoot. (by the way Yasser Kassana, you are totally right about the steadicams being very expensive, I looked into some of the new ones... they are around $60,000!)

On another note, have you guys decided about any kind of weather proofing for the camera, may it be a tight composite molding around the metal frame of the body or anything like that? I mean most likely if you are shooting in some weather you will put extra protection on it anyway, but I’m curious if that was looked into at all... Then again it might push the price up more for the added protection.

Something else I’ve thought about too... it seems that there is a cooling fan built into this camera... because of the hard drives and other internal components it needs it, but maybe there should be a way to control how much this fan is blowing.... I have yet to actually see the prototype so I don’t know how loud the fan might be on a closed set with the camera close to the actor/s... but it might be a good idea to be able to control how fast the fan is blowing, or have an internal thermometer like in most computers, that will tell you if you are reaching to hot of a point.

Please tell me if I’m over stepping my boundaries with my suggestions, I’m just a man with lots of ideas, who likes to see what others think. I shoot (Cinematography, Directing, Editing, sometimes all at the same time) at least one film a year, if not more, so I’m always looking for the next thing that could help the production. I’m a very hands on person and this new camera seems to have everything that is needed to shoot some fantastic footage.

The HD world is moving so fast these days its sometimes hard to keep up, so anytime there’s a completely new way to shooting, its always exciting to see it grow.

Joe Carney · May 31st, 2006, 10:28 AM

Ari, speaking for myself, I would prefer eSATA interfaces instead of usb2. eSata supports hot swap and raid. USB2 for the thumbdrives is very cool though.
eSata interface cards are affordable and available for both desktop and newer laptop systems (My HP zd8000 has an expresscard 54 slot that I bought a SIIG dual port eSata card for) LaCie includes a pciExpress card for their external multi terabyte eSata Raid drives . Stand alone eSata drives are priced similar to usb2 drives. Note.....eSata is different than on board Sata interfaces.
Just my .02

May 29th, 2006, 06:15 PM	#17
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	180-degree flip Yes...Ground glass converter support...forgot about that! Should we put this on the "A" list for first release (Jason?)

May 30th, 2006, 06:21 AM	#20
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	Ground Glass Converters Yasser, Can you forward me contact information for Jonathan Houser. I will discuss opportunities for collaboration. Ari

May 30th, 2006, 08:05 PM	#26
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	Silicon Mini Rigs Giuseppe...thank you for the input. I am wondering if we can get the best of both worlds with the Silicon Mini with a tethered recording system. Here is the rig the Spoon team built. We would like to build some commercial devices. Anyone for some input? Attached Images

May 30th, 2006, 09:20 PM	#27
Giuseppe Pugliese Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 392	the only concern I would see for a tethered system is for steadicam work, and possibly a problem with someone tripping on this wire, yanking and killing an expensive camera. I have worked on camera ideas myself, using CAD programs to design my own. There is always a middle ground, the hard part is finding it. the system they used on "Spoon" with the Wafian, was brilliant. It worked for what they needed it to do. I honestly think that if the price is set right, people will be willing to have a tethered system, if the footage will be as good as it is now. There are lots of filmmakers out there who want to shoot some great films, but are limited by money, and only money. These independent filmmakers are known for their ability to "make it work even if its broken". They might not worry in the least about a tethered system, as long as they are promised the footage will look great. You could make the camera lens mount and chip to be detachable from the main body, and have a cable that runs to it. Just like they have on spoon, only it would be tethered to that same body, this way the big camera can be sold, but they can use it just like the spoon guys did… instead of using the Wafian, they just use the big camera body as the recorder instead of the body. I personally would love to be able to use the prototype you guys have already made… it seems to be spitting out some great footage, and at a data rate that can be managed easily. That’s exactly the type of camera I would love to shoot my feature “Roundabout” with. Who knows within the next few months I might call you guys up and want to use this instead of the HD100. Last edited by Giuseppe Pugliese; May 31st, 2006 at 03:09 AM.

May 31st, 2006, 10:28 AM	#30
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Ari, speaking for myself, I would prefer eSATA interfaces instead of usb2. eSata supports hot swap and raid. USB2 for the thumbdrives is very cool though. eSata interface cards are affordable and available for both desktop and newer laptop systems (My HP zd8000 has an expresscard 54 slot that I bought a SIIG dual port eSata card for) LaCie includes a pciExpress card for their external multi terabyte eSata Raid drives . Stand alone eSata drives are priced similar to usb2 drives. Note.....eSata is different than on board Sata interfaces. Just my .02 __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

May 29th, 2006, 12:54 PM	#16
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Ari, the reason for the flip is that the ground-glass converters "flip" the image as they project it onto the ground-glass (you're filming the actual ground-glass projected image, that's why you get the 35mm-like DOF), unless you place another lens or prism in the optical path to "flip" the image so that it appears straight again. Right now, since the optical axis of the Silicon HD-Mini is not in the center of the camera head, flipping the camera head will make the camera incompatible with a variety of accessories that are expecting certain standard heights and distances to/from the optical axis.

May 29th, 2006, 09:15 PM	#18
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	Ari - My goals for this camera are small in comparison to your other users. For me, I am willing to spend more money for a higher class camcorder that has 1080p, hard-drive recording and your innovative codec. I am a serious hobbiest and don't need to make money with this unit. Initially, I intend to record sports events, dog shows, perhaps eventually moving on to short documentaries, especially outdoor scenics. For this, I'll need a good but relatively small zoom lens, perhaps 13 or 16x, a good eyepiece-type viewfinder, no LCD, and a light nimble body that can be tripod or monopod mounted. Optical image stabilization of the lens would be desirable. The hard-drive recorder and battery could be separate from the body and kept in a bag at the base of the tripod to reduce the size and weight of the camera head. Am I looking at the wrong unit for my needs ?

May 30th, 2006, 03:27 AM	#19
Yasser Kassana Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 223	WoW, you guys actually listen and you listen live. I'm impressed Ari and Jason. The preview screen 180 flip would be awesome. Also, perhaps working in conjunction with an adapter maker, i.e. Jonathan Houser from Cinemek, might reap some rewards....

May 30th, 2006, 07:52 AM	#22
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	Will can support any GGC supplier. I am not sure we can make any specific recommendation, unless a design can yield specific or unique results with our cameras - becuase it is better suited - if there is such a device. Glenn, any contact info?

May 30th, 2006, 09:37 AM	#24
Yasser Kassana Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 223	In defence of cinemek, those guys have some serious integrity, they could have sold beta units, half assed units whatever, but they refuse to do so, they will only deliver an exceptional quality product. No messing around, plug n play and bespoke units, unlike the rest of the adapters. Now i'm not a spokepersons for cinemek, I just believe in the product very much and in no way present their view, just my opinion.

May 31st, 2006, 02:10 AM	#28
Yasser Kassana Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 223	I second Giuseppe Pugliese last write. However, I do feel for the independent community who want to do alot of hand held work or steadicam work, it should be that heavy, i mean sure i've seen the EVE on a steadicam, but that's one expensive steadicam! Also, I don't fully agree that pro-equipment has to be that heavy, nowadays movies like Bourne supremacy, the new world etc, are all shot hand held and steadicam, panavision don't just make HUGE cameras, they make portable ones as well. So it might be a good idea to have both as an option a mini and michael jordan size.

May 31st, 2006, 02:59 AM	#29
Giuseppe Pugliese Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 392	I agree, I guess when I said I liked heavy, I was talking about the mid size ENG weight cameras. I think they have the right balance of bulk and size. I just don’t like to see good equipment get small to the point where it actually affects how you shoot. (by the way Yasser Kassana, you are totally right about the steadicams being very expensive, I looked into some of the new ones... they are around $60,000!) On another note, have you guys decided about any kind of weather proofing for the camera, may it be a tight composite molding around the metal frame of the body or anything like that? I mean most likely if you are shooting in some weather you will put extra protection on it anyway, but I’m curious if that was looked into at all... Then again it might push the price up more for the added protection. Something else I’ve thought about too... it seems that there is a cooling fan built into this camera... because of the hard drives and other internal components it needs it, but maybe there should be a way to control how much this fan is blowing.... I have yet to actually see the prototype so I don’t know how loud the fan might be on a closed set with the camera close to the actor/s... but it might be a good idea to be able to control how fast the fan is blowing, or have an internal thermometer like in most computers, that will tell you if you are reaching to hot of a point. Please tell me if I’m over stepping my boundaries with my suggestions, I’m just a man with lots of ideas, who likes to see what others think. I shoot (Cinematography, Directing, Editing, sometimes all at the same time) at least one film a year, if not more, so I’m always looking for the next thing that could help the production. I’m a very hands on person and this new camera seems to have everything that is needed to shoot some fantastic footage. The HD world is moving so fast these days its sometimes hard to keep up, so anytime there’s a completely new way to shooting, its always exciting to see it grow.