Sony FDR-AX100

Ken Ross · July 11th, 2014, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

Well my experience with the AX100 is that used appropriately the 4K is really impressive for a camera at this price point.

Yes, it does suffer from rolling shutter but the combination of a good 12x optical zoom, good codec and low noise sensor with reasonably good dynamic range means means it is capable of producing a really good image. Add to that the good LCD and rear EVF as well as excellent focus tools often only found on high end pro cameras and in the right hands the camera can produce beautiful 4K and HD images.

Agreed.

I don't think that AX100 would be my first choice for 4K night sports shooting. The RS is not an issue in 4K when used in a more typical manner.

Dave Blackhurst · July 11th, 2014, 04:30 PM

I think I said from the get go that fast motion situations *might* not be "good" for this camera... just sort of went with the specs. I also said that the 1080/60p mode would likely cover that scenario... easy peasy.

Ultimately, I've shot some things with relatively fast motion and achieved results I think most people would be happy with... the trick is finding the right shutter speed to balance motion blur through the frame. RS is "bad", but not at all unexpected with the physics involved in reading the sensor with so many data points... and with wider framing, it's not a huge obstacle, you just want to avoid panning if at all possible <wink>!

I do want to do the upgrade but shoot some comparison video first to see what happens to the 1080 clips. Too many things, on too small a plate at the moment!! The multiple reports of improved 1080 certainly intrigue me, now to find the time!

Looks like uploads are fixed (thx Chris), so I'll find a couple minutes to post the shoe adapter shortly...

And I'd agree with Alister as well, this is an amazing camera for the price point... period. Build quality, features, controls, all probably the best video camera I've had in a long time - not "perfect", but quite good!

Anthony Lelli · July 11th, 2014, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

I think I said from the get go that fast motion situations *might* not be "good" for this camera...

Yes you did , but I had to try. And you know that I did, up to the last minute. The thing is that any camera shows some degradation the moment you start panning (with the exception of the FX1 maybe, CCD). But then again all the 1080 cameras in the prosumer segment can't match the AX100 in 4K (and in 1080 as well, actually). So, relatively speaking only the AX1 can be taken under consideration for a fair comparison. Still It looks like a little too much degradation for the AX100 panning (to me). About the 1080 of the AX100 with the 2.0 I can tell that's very good. It takes some time to render and you really should use the new XAVCs which will only ask to confirm the framerate and the size (no other setting beside that). It's for both HD1080 and 4K2160 (for the AX100)
Maybe 4K at that price came down too soon. it needs much faster computers to name one thing for example. It takes a long time to render on i7. Maybe we need some i77 instead?.
Yeah, 4K on AX100 for controlled shootings (I mean the people in front of the camera must be "controlled" LOL) and slowwwwww panning. After all the distribution of 4K is not yet ready in terms of equipment. Anyway for sports it could be a great tool for tactical , covering the entire field and don't move. At the world cup they used the F55 cameras with fujinon lens, hmmm F55 sounds like a fighter-jet instead of a camera :)

Oh almost forgot about the bracket: it's good, and helps to handle the camera better too! Tomorrow I'll drill it to attach a shoe for the shotgun (I'm going to get a rode, TSR good enough and maybe better than the audiotechnica 875r that I have now (XLR). The thing that I don't like about the rode is that it needs a battery... oh well...

Ken Ross · July 12th, 2014, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Lelli

Maybe 4K at that price came down too soon. it needs much faster computers to name one thing for example. It takes a long time to render on i7. Maybe we need some i77 instead?.

Much depends on your software. I'm using Edius Pro 7 and find the renders to be in the same ballpark as AVCHD. Not bad at all with an I7.

Bruce Dempsey · July 12th, 2014, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Lelli

...

Maybe the 977 has been here all along but actually called the 970, 980 or 990 intel 6core chips
All 1st gen i7 computers are not equal. For instance an i7 980 will render a big fat file in under half the time it would take a i7 920 due to the hexcore (6) chip which provides 12 threads for the video inwhich to render as opposed to the 920's quad core of only 8 threads.
I myself am in the midst of that specific upgrade and using Edius7 expect no problems working with those 4k files from my yet to arrive fz1000. As well nvidia have produced "keplar" class video cards specifically for 4k and one of those is coming to my editing rig as well

Noa Put · July 12th, 2014, 09:50 AM

Same no issue 4K workflow using edius 7 here and that with a bitrate up to 100mbs on a i7 3770 cpu, Edius doesn't even require a fast gamers card, in fact you can even do without one, just the onboard gpu will do and it's that same gpu on the motherboard that accelerates the rendering a lot, about 2 times faster then realtime when I edit 4K on a 1080p timeline and render to a high quality h.264 mp4 file. 4K is more demanding on my pc and editng 4K in a multicam setup is not realtime but as long as only one stream of 4K is involved then there is no issue.

Bruce Dempsey · July 12th, 2014, 10:55 AM

While setting up a Seiki uhd 39" panel to resolution 3840 x 2160 it seems that even though a pre-4K nvidia gt440 which when manually configured will display 4k,,
Perhaps though a card designed for 4K might do a better job natively.
We'll see about that presumption next week after I install the PNY XLR8 GeForce GTX 760 - Enthusiast Edition - Graphics Card - 2 GB
So far and only having access to downloaded 4k files The seiki looks pretty good but the wow factor might just kick in once this new card is in (fingers crossed)

Boyd Kelly · July 12th, 2014, 11:56 AM

Just delivered and took it out for some quick and dirty practice. I'm off to an air show next week. Camera is upgraded to firmware 2.0

This one is 4K default auto settings except autofocus set to infinity, wind reducer on (getting a windcutter!), Active IS

This one is 4K defaults with autofocus on, Active IS

This one is 4K autofocus, Active IS with Cinematone

All were imported into FCP X and used the "standard" YouTube 4K "better quality" export from the normal FCP export settings.

I don't have a 4K monitor, does anyone know if the default FCP upload to YT is significantly different to the Compressor export? I'm trying to figure out if I need Compressor as well to maximize my results.

I deal primarily in YT and aviation. Thanks.

Bruce Dempsey · July 12th, 2014, 12:10 PM

I've downloaded the 4k off youtube and played on 39 seiki
not bad
No tripod?

Boyd Kelly · July 12th, 2014, 12:22 PM

No, I haven't got the hang of a tripod with that much movement yet, I needed to get down to the airport before the sun went down and the fog came in.

It just arrived really late to get some good practice in before I leave. I just couldn't decide if I need to move up to 4K and decided since I wanted the larger chip, I might as well.

I did a lot of freehand with my old HDR-CX550V (it shows) 2 years ago and I'm trying to find the right mix between tripod, shoulder rig and stabilization software. I'm hoping the larger chip will allow me to leave the zoom out more and capture more detail at the same time.

In hindsight, it might be that my tripod isn't good enough...and I've not focused on that being an issue.

Bruce Dempsey · July 12th, 2014, 12:58 PM

I have a cx550v as well fantastic little camera
Yeah decent sticks and a good video head make a big difference and I personally would not consider not using same. You do a good job hand held but its still hand held if you know what i mean?
I use a manfrotto 055 with a 501 head and zoom controller on the panhandle. It will be the best 500 bucks you ever spent in terms of making nice watchable video
Have a blast at the show

Eric Lagerlof · July 12th, 2014, 11:18 PM

Has anyone worked out the 'Mic In' connection? It seemed to adjust to mic/line level inputs automatically in one situation but in another the line level had to be so low before distortion on both the audio board feeding the camera and the camera itself that it seemed like the input was truly mic level only. If so, how does this camera record line level audio?

Anthony Lelli · July 13th, 2014, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Much depends on your software. I'm using Edius Pro 7 and find the renders to be in the same ballpark as AVCHD. Not bad at all with an I7.

Yes Ken,
I can see what you mean now. Edius took 25minutes to export under XAVCS a 50min footage in 1080 60p 50mbps , so it's half of the real time which is impressive. with a filter running too! (added contrast). the file was originally 55minutes , but I needed to cut 5minutes of unwanted material. So for a quick edit and rough cuts is perfect.

I'm evaluating the purchase now, it may deserve the 500bucks, but I'm still evaluating (because I'll still need Vegas for other things).

By the way WHY vegas takes such a long time to render?
did you try the rolling shutter/stabilization filter? It takes a while to analyze I see. is it any good? (on 4K in particular, obviously)

Ken Ross · July 13th, 2014, 01:55 PM

Anthony, I've tried the stabilization built in to Edius and although it's moderately effective, I don't like the loss of resolution that's a byproduct of it. It's not that bad, but I just hate losing anything. Most people probably would find it a worthwhile tradeoff, and it probably is where shake is ruining the clip.

Now to be fair, I also tried Mercalli and was really shocked at how little difference there was between what's built into Edius and Mercalli.

Noa Put · July 15th, 2014, 06:38 AM

When editing a 4K file In a 1080p project however I don't see any loss in image quality when applying the stabiliser, another advantage of editing in this way. I am not that happy about the build in stabiliser in Edius as it does deforms the image and creates some odd wobbles. It's great to remove jitter on very stationary shots but once you move a the camera a bit too much it does more bad then good, I might have to experiment a bit more with the settings.
I just ordered the ax100 and will sell a few of my other camera's so my gh4/rx10 and ax100 will be my main camera's throughout the day and the gh3 will be a permanent steadicam camera. The ax100 will have to cover any run and gun situation I have to deal with, I"m curious how it will handle.

July 11th, 2014, 04:30 PM	#1607
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I think I said from the get go that fast motion situations might not be "good" for this camera... just sort of went with the specs. I also said that the 1080/60p mode would likely cover that scenario... easy peasy. Ultimately, I've shot some things with relatively fast motion and achieved results I think most people would be happy with... the trick is finding the right shutter speed to balance motion blur through the frame. RS is "bad", but not at all unexpected with the physics involved in reading the sensor with so many data points... and with wider framing, it's not a huge obstacle, you just want to avoid panning if at all possible <wink>! I do want to do the upgrade but shoot some comparison video first to see what happens to the 1080 clips. Too many things, on too small a plate at the moment!! The multiple reports of improved 1080 certainly intrigue me, now to find the time! Looks like uploads are fixed (thx Chris), so I'll find a couple minutes to post the shoe adapter shortly... And I'd agree with Alister as well, this is an amazing camera for the price point... period. Build quality, features, controls, all probably the best video camera I've had in a long time - not "perfect", but quite good!

July 12th, 2014, 09:50 AM	#1611
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Same no issue 4K workflow using edius 7 here and that with a bitrate up to 100mbs on a i7 3770 cpu, Edius doesn't even require a fast gamers card, in fact you can even do without one, just the onboard gpu will do and it's that same gpu on the motherboard that accelerates the rendering a lot, about 2 times faster then realtime when I edit 4K on a 1080p timeline and render to a high quality h.264 mp4 file. 4K is more demanding on my pc and editng 4K in a multicam setup is not realtime but as long as only one stream of 4K is involved then there is no issue.

July 12th, 2014, 10:55 AM	#1612
Bruce Dempsey Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Atlantic Coast Canada Posts: 599	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 While setting up a Seiki uhd 39" panel to resolution 3840 x 2160 it seems that even though a pre-4K nvidia gt440 which when manually configured will display 4k,, Perhaps though a card designed for 4K might do a better job natively. We'll see about that presumption next week after I install the PNY XLR8 GeForce GTX 760 - Enthusiast Edition - Graphics Card - 2 GB So far and only having access to downloaded 4k files The seiki looks pretty good but the wow factor might just kick in once this new card is in (fingers crossed) Last edited by Bruce Dempsey; July 12th, 2014 at 11:37 AM.

July 12th, 2014, 11:56 AM	#1613
Boyd Kelly Tourist Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Just delivered and took it out for some quick and dirty practice. I'm off to an air show next week. Camera is upgraded to firmware 2.0 This one is 4K default auto settings except autofocus set to infinity, wind reducer on (getting a windcutter!), Active IS Korean Air Airbus A380 Landing LAX 4K Test - YouTube This one is 4K defaults with autofocus on, Active IS Lufthansa Boeing 747-8 Landing LAX 4K Test - YouTube This one is 4K autofocus, Active IS with Cinematone Eva Air Boeing 777 Landing LAX 4K Test - YouTube All were imported into FCP X and used the "standard" YouTube 4K "better quality" export from the normal FCP export settings. I don't have a 4K monitor, does anyone know if the default FCP upload to YT is significantly different to the Compressor export? I'm trying to figure out if I need Compressor as well to maximize my results. I deal primarily in YT and aviation. Thanks.

July 12th, 2014, 12:10 PM	#1614
Bruce Dempsey Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Atlantic Coast Canada Posts: 599	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I've downloaded the 4k off youtube and played on 39 seiki not bad No tripod?

July 12th, 2014, 12:22 PM	#1615
Boyd Kelly Tourist Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 No, I haven't got the hang of a tripod with that much movement yet, I needed to get down to the airport before the sun went down and the fog came in. It just arrived really late to get some good practice in before I leave. I just couldn't decide if I need to move up to 4K and decided since I wanted the larger chip, I might as well. I did a lot of freehand with my old HDR-CX550V (it shows) 2 years ago and I'm trying to find the right mix between tripod, shoulder rig and stabilization software. I'm hoping the larger chip will allow me to leave the zoom out more and capture more detail at the same time. F/A-18 Flight Demonstration - Farnborough Airshow 2012 (Wednesday) - YouTube In hindsight, it might be that my tripod isn't good enough...and I've not focused on that being an issue.

July 12th, 2014, 12:58 PM	#1616
Bruce Dempsey Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Atlantic Coast Canada Posts: 599	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I have a cx550v as well fantastic little camera Yeah decent sticks and a good video head make a big difference and I personally would not consider not using same. You do a good job hand held but its still hand held if you know what i mean? I use a manfrotto 055 with a 501 head and zoom controller on the panhandle. It will be the best 500 bucks you ever spent in terms of making nice watchable video Have a blast at the show

July 12th, 2014, 11:18 PM	#1617
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	Mic/Line level? Has anyone worked out the 'Mic In' connection? It seemed to adjust to mic/line level inputs automatically in one situation but in another the line level had to be so low before distortion on both the audio board feeding the camera and the camera itself that it seemed like the input was truly mic level only. If so, how does this camera record line level audio?

July 13th, 2014, 01:55 PM	#1619
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Anthony, I've tried the stabilization built in to Edius and although it's moderately effective, I don't like the loss of resolution that's a byproduct of it. It's not that bad, but I just hate losing anything. Most people probably would find it a worthwhile tradeoff, and it probably is where shake is ruining the clip. Now to be fair, I also tried Mercalli and was really shocked at how little difference there was between what's built into Edius and Mercalli.

July 15th, 2014, 06:38 AM	#1620
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 When editing a 4K file In a 1080p project however I don't see any loss in image quality when applying the stabiliser, another advantage of editing in this way. I am not that happy about the build in stabiliser in Edius as it does deforms the image and creates some odd wobbles. It's great to remove jitter on very stationary shots but once you move a the camera a bit too much it does more bad then good, I might have to experiment a bit more with the settings. I just ordered the ax100 and will sell a few of my other camera's so my gh4/rx10 and ax100 will be my main camera's throughout the day and the gh3 will be a permanent steadicam camera. The ax100 will have to cover any run and gun situation I have to deal with, I"m curious how it will handle.