Sony FDR-AX100

Mark Watson · September 14th, 2014, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len Imbery

I also notice that there is only one small metal loop on the strap that maybe a camera strap could be attached...does anyone have any recommendations for a carrying strap for this camcorder?...

What I am looking for is a way to have a strap around my neck so I can hold the camera out from me just far enough to allow some freedom of movement while still close enough that I can see the LCD good. Currently using the Peak Design leash camera strap. I attach it to the single ring on the hand grip and then to the tripod attach point, with the purchase of the screw-in ring. There are still some twisting forces to deal with, but it's better than having both ends of the neck strap attached to the single point at the hand grip.

Mark

Len Imbery · September 16th, 2014, 01:46 PM

OK...now that I've shot some 4k footage how do I get it into my Imac for editing? (All I've seen so far on the forum is some mac vs. pc flaming)...Is there a program that I need to convert it to HD?, and then will these files work in Imovie?....or?

James R. Wilson Sr. · September 21st, 2014, 08:15 PM

As a three decade commercial still photographer, I'll be the first to say that the complexities of video make still photography and Photoshop look like paint by numbers. I have shot some pretty nice video over the past thirty years, but getting serious about it, in the current technical environment, is daunting. I'm slowly getting up to speed but things seem to advance so quickly, and the options appear infinite from my fledgling position.

Because of my relationships with major camera producers, I can get my hands on most any piece of gear for a few days for testing. Last week I spent a few days with the Sony AX-100. B&H has pages of glowing reviews from purchasers that, on their own, would entice a perspective purchaser over the edge. Shooting with the 100 and comparing it to the reviews, makes me realize how relative impressions are. While the 100 is a technological marvel in terms of what comes in a small $1800 package, closer scrutiny reveals very obvious deficiencies. I was prepared (by the capable reviewers here) for the rolling shutter and artifacting. What took me by surprise was the very mediocre dynamic range. Shooting average scenes the camera does fine, but try to capture a composition that includes sunlit green landscape and something like a bride strolling through it, not only won't it capture any detail in her dress, the color fringing and outright posterization in the brightest areas was extremely disappointing.

My old XHA1 had far more dynamic range than this new camera. While my fiddling with the AX100 was more out of curiosity, seeing what 4K was all about and exploring new codecs and frame rates, it convinced me that I needed to move way up the line to get anything that would come close to meeting my expectations. I realize it's not apples to apples (more like apples to Ferrari's) but I think I'm going to cut my teeth with a new Sony PXW-180.

Dave Blackhurst · September 21st, 2014, 11:11 PM

Can you post some examples/samples of these "obvious deficiencies"? I'm reviewing some AX100 stuff I've shot, and I don't have ANY of the supposed troubles you're speaking of. It takes some time to get a handle on getting the best results from this camera, and handling the 4K video and workflow takes a bit as well, but these are not camera deficiencies, just adjustments to get the best results.

Yes, RS is a factor, as it is on almost every CMOS sensor based camera - it is a bit worse when in 4K modes, but even there you can work around it for some purposes. We have addressed certain other types of artifacting being the result of improper shutter speeds, or system issues unrelated to the camera (if your computer system is NOT 4K capable, you'll get lots of "interesting" results unrelated to the camera...). Other than those, you won't find a camera shooting sharper images anywhere close to this price point.

Color fringing, posterization, no "detail"... somehow sounds more like there is a problem either with the camera you used, or with your process, as these are NOT things I'm seeing with the AX100 - it's not flawless, but it's quite good, and properly handled should be a significant step up from an XHA1...

Lou Bruno · September 22nd, 2014, 06:17 AM

I like this camera so much, I sold my 3 chip camera. I won't repeat the positive attributes. It is the best bang for the buck.

Knowledge of exposure is necessary and I don't think an amateur will grasp the concept using this camera right out of the box. There is no perfect camera but the 1" sensor produces......... Beautiful DOF.

Vaughan Wood · September 22nd, 2014, 06:56 PM

I use my AX100 recording 4K for stage shows on a wide shot as a 'safety' shot, and our other cameras are Panasonic AG130 and 160's. When both the AX100 and the wide Panasonic have been beside each other you can definitely see that the Panasonic have about 2 stops more dynamic range than the AX100.

As soon as you set up for spotlight use, so as not to blow out highlights, you can easily lose most of the rest of the a dark stage on the AX100. (it blows out quite easily).

However, in post, the AX100 XAVC S 4k footage can be tweaked up a VERY long way without objectionable noise, much more than the Panasonic AVCHD footage.

I just did this yesterday actually, it amazed me how far I could lift footage to match the Panasonics, and stay virtually noise free.

Cheers,

Vaughan

Dave Blackhurst · September 23rd, 2014, 09:42 PM

Anyone who has shot Sony is aware they can tend to over expose and that adjusting the AutoExposure setting a tad to the negative is almost mandatory, that would probably bring back detail in the "highs" and reduce any blowout. As noted, there is usually a fair amount of detail in the shadows that can be pulled out. Got to dig it out in post, but...

I know that the DRO function in the RX10 and RX100 allows you to flatten the dynamic range by adjusting the settings so you get more range to work with... the range is there... a similar function is missing in the AX100, but could probably be implemented in the firmware were there a demand for it - not sure the processor would be able to do it on the fly for 4K, but it does for high bitrate 1080p.

It is funny how some people "try" the AX100 and declare it "deficient", while those who take a little time to work with it find it does a pretty decent job under many shooting scenarios... We've debunked many of the supposed "flaws" on this extensive thread, but it would take a day or two to dig through to find the "fixes"!!

If I took the first "results" of shooting and processing 4K, I'd have decided it wasn't "there" either, but with time and effort to get a working 4K computer system and figuring out how to tweak the camera for best results, I can now get reliably stunning results... wouldn't trade the AX100 for any other camera I've had along the way

Jeff Harper · September 24th, 2014, 04:44 AM

I agree Dave, the camera will easily blowout, so you need to be careful.

As has been said it is amazing what can be done with the footage in post. In post I can brighten or darken footage from camera or add contrast and it looks fabulous.

James R. Wilson Sr. · September 24th, 2014, 06:58 AM

Thanks for your insight guys. I factored my inexperience into the results, just didn't have the unit long enough to explore more techniques. The last week I've been testing a C100, partly because I have every lens Canon makes from the 800mm down. Still leaning toward the Sony PXW-180 I think.

Ken Ross · September 24th, 2014, 09:13 AM

Couldn't agree with Dave's comments more. You can't pick up the AX100 and declare it incompetent within a few hours or 2 days. You need to learn how to get the most out of it and you will most certainly need to use the manual controls.

But used properly, you just can't find a better 4K picture anywhere near this price point. We just got back from Europe and I was shaking my head at the output quality...amazing. :)

Jeff Harper · September 24th, 2014, 12:40 PM

Ken, the quality of the images is phenomenal indeed. I hate editing the 4K as it really slows things down, but the footage looks so good and is SO tweakable. Great camera.

I find it's tricky getting the exposure right, from my previous cams I tend to overexpose and that is not necessary with this cam and in fact is not advisable because as Dave pointed out these Sony's tend to be a bit hot out of the box.

Len Imbery · September 27th, 2014, 10:55 AM

Here's some of the first footage I shot with this camera(except opening skyline shot which was done on a Sony Nex7)....auto mode with challenging live performances and stage lighting....sound is with onboard mic.. 4K footage was downconverted to HD before editing...

Noa Put · September 28th, 2014, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

As has been said it is amazing what can be done with the footage in post. In post I can brighten or darken footage from camera or add contrast and it looks fabulous.

I mentioned it in this post: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-...-stops-dr.html that I was surprised how easy it was to pull back detail from underexposed areas without any noticeable sideeffects. Using this technique does slow down realtime preview considerably and increases render times but I only switch on the layers that provide this function when I render the footage, otherwise, after I applied the effect I leave the layer disabled to get real time edit performance. The 50mbs codec holds up remarkably well when pushed in post.

Mark Rosenzweig · September 28th, 2014, 07:31 PM

The AX100 in Bogota:

Trip up and down the mountain by tram, some acrobatics, and music.

Dave Blackhurst · September 29th, 2014, 02:20 PM

OK, everyone "report" this message to remind Chris to give the AX100 it's own sub forum!

Hey Chris, how about that form for these now not so new cameras ("new" replacements might be announced soon!). Probably need a place for these 1" class cameras, the AX100, X70, RX10 and RX100, and/or a "4K" section both options are viable, as all the above are using the same sensor and XAVCS, so they are related...

A 4K section is also viable, as there will be plenty to learn and share about 4K/UHD capture, post processing, and hopefully delivery!

Whatever the structure, both of these subforum suggestions are worth sorting out, there's enough on this never ending AX100 thread to be a subforum all by itself... and 4K is roaring down upon us, best to get ahead of it!

September 16th, 2014, 01:46 PM	#1727
Len Imbery Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada Posts: 106	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 OK...now that I've shot some 4k footage how do I get it into my Imac for editing? (All I've seen so far on the forum is some mac vs. pc flaming)...Is there a program that I need to convert it to HD?, and then will these files work in Imovie?....or?

September 21st, 2014, 08:15 PM	#1728
James R. Wilson Sr. Photographer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Allen, Texas Posts: 155	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 As a three decade commercial still photographer, I'll be the first to say that the complexities of video make still photography and Photoshop look like paint by numbers. I have shot some pretty nice video over the past thirty years, but getting serious about it, in the current technical environment, is daunting. I'm slowly getting up to speed but things seem to advance so quickly, and the options appear infinite from my fledgling position. Because of my relationships with major camera producers, I can get my hands on most any piece of gear for a few days for testing. Last week I spent a few days with the Sony AX-100. B&H has pages of glowing reviews from purchasers that, on their own, would entice a perspective purchaser over the edge. Shooting with the 100 and comparing it to the reviews, makes me realize how relative impressions are. While the 100 is a technological marvel in terms of what comes in a small $1800 package, closer scrutiny reveals very obvious deficiencies. I was prepared (by the capable reviewers here) for the rolling shutter and artifacting. What took me by surprise was the very mediocre dynamic range. Shooting average scenes the camera does fine, but try to capture a composition that includes sunlit green landscape and something like a bride strolling through it, not only won't it capture any detail in her dress, the color fringing and outright posterization in the brightest areas was extremely disappointing. My old XHA1 had far more dynamic range than this new camera. While my fiddling with the AX100 was more out of curiosity, seeing what 4K was all about and exploring new codecs and frame rates, it convinced me that I needed to move way up the line to get anything that would come close to meeting my expectations. I realize it's not apples to apples (more like apples to Ferrari's) but I think I'm going to cut my teeth with a new Sony PXW-180. __________________ Jim

September 21st, 2014, 11:11 PM	#1729
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Can you post some examples/samples of these "obvious deficiencies"? I'm reviewing some AX100 stuff I've shot, and I don't have ANY of the supposed troubles you're speaking of. It takes some time to get a handle on getting the best results from this camera, and handling the 4K video and workflow takes a bit as well, but these are not camera deficiencies, just adjustments to get the best results. Yes, RS is a factor, as it is on almost every CMOS sensor based camera - it is a bit worse when in 4K modes, but even there you can work around it for some purposes. We have addressed certain other types of artifacting being the result of improper shutter speeds, or system issues unrelated to the camera (if your computer system is NOT 4K capable, you'll get lots of "interesting" results unrelated to the camera...). Other than those, you won't find a camera shooting sharper images anywhere close to this price point. Color fringing, posterization, no "detail"... somehow sounds more like there is a problem either with the camera you used, or with your process, as these are NOT things I'm seeing with the AX100 - it's not flawless, but it's quite good, and properly handled should be a significant step up from an XHA1...

September 22nd, 2014, 06:17 AM	#1730
Lou Bruno Go Cycle Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 815	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I like this camera so much, I sold my 3 chip camera. I won't repeat the positive attributes. It is the best bang for the buck. Knowledge of exposure is necessary and I don't think an amateur will grasp the concept using this camera right out of the box. There is no perfect camera but the 1" sensor produces......... Beautiful DOF. __________________ Lou Bruno

September 22nd, 2014, 06:56 PM	#1731
Vaughan Wood Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 278	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I use my AX100 recording 4K for stage shows on a wide shot as a 'safety' shot, and our other cameras are Panasonic AG130 and 160's. When both the AX100 and the wide Panasonic have been beside each other you can definitely see that the Panasonic have about 2 stops more dynamic range than the AX100. As soon as you set up for spotlight use, so as not to blow out highlights, you can easily lose most of the rest of the a dark stage on the AX100. (it blows out quite easily). However, in post, the AX100 XAVC S 4k footage can be tweaked up a VERY long way without objectionable noise, much more than the Panasonic AVCHD footage. I just did this yesterday actually, it amazed me how far I could lift footage to match the Panasonics, and stay virtually noise free. Cheers, Vaughan

September 23rd, 2014, 09:42 PM	#1732
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Anyone who has shot Sony is aware they can tend to over expose and that adjusting the AutoExposure setting a tad to the negative is almost mandatory, that would probably bring back detail in the "highs" and reduce any blowout. As noted, there is usually a fair amount of detail in the shadows that can be pulled out. Got to dig it out in post, but... I know that the DRO function in the RX10 and RX100 allows you to flatten the dynamic range by adjusting the settings so you get more range to work with... the range is there... a similar function is missing in the AX100, but could probably be implemented in the firmware were there a demand for it - not sure the processor would be able to do it on the fly for 4K, but it does for high bitrate 1080p. It is funny how some people "try" the AX100 and declare it "deficient", while those who take a little time to work with it find it does a pretty decent job under many shooting scenarios... We've debunked many of the supposed "flaws" on this extensive thread, but it would take a day or two to dig through to find the "fixes"!! If I took the first "results" of shooting and processing 4K, I'd have decided it wasn't "there" either, but with time and effort to get a working 4K computer system and figuring out how to tweak the camera for best results, I can now get reliably stunning results... wouldn't trade the AX100 for any other camera I've had along the way

September 24th, 2014, 04:44 AM	#1733
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I agree Dave, the camera will easily blowout, so you need to be careful. As has been said it is amazing what can be done with the footage in post. In post I can brighten or darken footage from camera or add contrast and it looks fabulous. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

September 24th, 2014, 06:58 AM	#1734
James R. Wilson Sr. Photographer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Allen, Texas Posts: 155	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Thanks for your insight guys. I factored my inexperience into the results, just didn't have the unit long enough to explore more techniques. The last week I've been testing a C100, partly because I have every lens Canon makes from the 800mm down. Still leaning toward the Sony PXW-180 I think. __________________ Jim

September 24th, 2014, 09:13 AM	#1735
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Couldn't agree with Dave's comments more. You can't pick up the AX100 and declare it incompetent within a few hours or 2 days. You need to learn how to get the most out of it and you will most certainly need to use the manual controls. But used properly, you just can't find a better 4K picture anywhere near this price point. We just got back from Europe and I was shaking my head at the output quality...amazing. :)

September 24th, 2014, 12:40 PM	#1736
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Ken, the quality of the images is phenomenal indeed. I hate editing the 4K as it really slows things down, but the footage looks so good and is SO tweakable. Great camera. I find it's tricky getting the exposure right, from my previous cams I tend to overexpose and that is not necessary with this cam and in fact is not advisable because as Dave pointed out these Sony's tend to be a bit hot out of the box. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

September 27th, 2014, 10:55 AM	#1737
Len Imbery Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada Posts: 106	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Here's some of the first footage I shot with this camera(except opening skyline shot which was done on a Sony Nex7)....auto mode with challenging live performances and stage lighting....sound is with onboard mic.. 4K footage was downconverted to HD before editing... Accordion Noir Fest 2014 on Vimeo Last edited by Len Imbery; September 27th, 2014 at 02:24 PM.

September 28th, 2014, 07:31 PM	#1739
Mark Rosenzweig Trustee Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 1,004	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 The AX100 in Bogota: Sony FDR AX100 4K Video: Seeing Bogota from Mount Monserrate and Below on Vimeo Trip up and down the mountain by tram, some acrobatics, and music.

September 29th, 2014, 02:20 PM	#1740
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 OK, everyone "report" this message to remind Chris to give the AX100 it's own sub forum! Hey Chris, how about that form for these now not so new cameras ("new" replacements might be announced soon!). Probably need a place for these 1" class cameras, the AX100, X70, RX10 and RX100, and/or a "4K" section both options are viable, as all the above are using the same sensor and XAVCS, so they are related... A 4K section is also viable, as there will be plenty to learn and share about 4K/UHD capture, post processing, and hopefully delivery! Whatever the structure, both of these subforum suggestions are worth sorting out, there's enough on this never ending AX100 thread to be a subforum all by itself... and 4K is roaring down upon us, best to get ahead of it!