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Pro and consumer versions including PXW-Z150, PXW-Z100, PXW-X70 / FDR-AX100


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Old March 28th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #706
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

Ken,

I agree with you. This AX100 is ridiculously sharp. You could also be right about the sharpness and the motion softness too. Maybe with 1080, the resolution difference in motion is not as dramatic because we aren't starting with that sharp of an image to begin with.

Imagine a resolution chart with 2,000 lines on it. If the chart start was moving in front of a camera even slowly, the first lines to get smeared would be the highest frequency lines. Then, the faster the cart is moved, the further down the "blur" would move. So,...it would take more motion to blur the 600 or 700 line mark than it does to blur the 1500 line mark? (shutter speed dependent...but we tend not to really like shutter speeds that are above 1/90 or something like that)

Right? Maybe? Alister, you have been shooting 4K for a while now. Is this accurate or completely off?

I'm still getting used to 4K! Love it.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 02:44 PM   #707
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

I've been theorizing that the higher resolution "masks" the motion issues from the 30p - with scenes with motion, the stuff that's not moving remains quite sharp, and the motion blur seems unoffensive enough. I'm sure 60p would be "sharper" on individual frozen frames, but I'm not so sure whether that would appear "more" natural... or less?! All I know is so far the 4K samples look "pleasing" (well maybe not that fly, that was a bit scary!).

There may well be some things going on with how we "see" naturally, vs. a captured image. I know I'm noticing that these 4K videos on my screen (even at 1080) are sharper than my "corrected" vision! it's almost as though the captured images are resolving detail that our brains would generally "toss out", and we may have to readjust "how" we see, if that makes any sense.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 03:13 PM   #708
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

The HC1 and FX7 I had would record HDV to tape and simultaneously down-convert and output DV thru firewire to a dvd disc recorder and I did thousands of hours like that.
.

Will the ax100 record 4k to memory card whilst out-putting 1080p via HDMI which would feed the switcher along with several other cams?
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Old March 28th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #709
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey View Post
The HC1 and FX7 I had would record HDV to tape and simultaneously down-convert and output DV thru firewire to a dvd disc recorder and I did thousands of hours like that.
.

Will the ax100 record 4k to memory card whilst out-putting 1080p via HDMI which would feed the switcher along with several other cams?
Bruce, this has been asked & answered several times. When recording 4K to an internal memory card, the AX100 cannot output via HDMI. I'm theorizing this is due to the intensive processing requirements needed to do both simultaneously.

The workaround, as Mark R. demonstrated, is to output the signal via wifi to a tablet or smartphone which the camera can do while recording 4K. But you cannot feed several other cams.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 04:26 PM   #710
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

I shoot live switched sometimes with 4 cameras and the output of the switcher is recorded so the individual camera recording is not so important.
The gist of my question is " If the ax100 is set to record 4k but the record button is NOT pressed, what is the 1080p in-camera down-converted HDMI video like? Is it similar to what everyone is raving about sharper than straight shot 1080?
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Old March 28th, 2014, 04:59 PM   #711
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

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Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
Yeah,...running at 24p with at 1/24 shutter,
Don't mean to harp, but the shutter should/must be 1/50th or 1/60th AT ALL TIMES.

At 1/24th the shutter is open for the entire frame time which should only be used for low light recording with NON MOVING subjects. Unless, of course, you are after a subjective drunk POV.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 05:03 PM   #712
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
The workaround, as Mark R. demonstrated, is to output the signal via wifi to a tablet or smartphone which the camera can do while recording 4K.
This enables a visual check on the camera's capture, but won't support recording of a useable movie.

The AX100 is not like 5 -10 year old DV and HDV camcorders. It records very high-quality images at low-frame-rates. Recording is EITHER internal or to a device connected to the HDMI connector.

If one owns an HDMI switcher, one can do a live mix. If one has an HDMI recorder, one can record. For example, to ProRes.

If one needs HD-SDI, one can buy a converter.

I haven't seen answers to:

1) I assume the HDMI output is 8-bit.

2) Is it 420 or 422?

3) What is the output when shooting 30p? Some tvs don't accept 30p or 60p. At 1920x1080 they expect 60i.

4) What is the output when shooting 24p? Some tvs don't accept 24p (and add 3:2 pulldown) or 60p (with 3:2 pulldown added in the camera). At 1920x1080 they expect 60i with 3:2 pulldown.

5) Has anyone connected to a 4k tv?
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Old March 28th, 2014, 05:10 PM   #713
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

Steve if your camera is right there
Plug the hdmi into a 1080 screen and give the word
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Old March 28th, 2014, 05:11 PM   #714
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Bruce, this has been asked & answered several times. When recording 4K to an internal memory card, the AX100 cannot output via HDMI. I'm theorizing this is due to the intensive processing requirements needed to do both simultaneously.

The workaround, as Mark R. demonstrated, is to output the signal via wifi to a tablet or smartphone which the camera can do while recording 4K. But you cannot feed several other cams.
I've asked this before about using the tablet/phone app during 4k recording, but no one seemed to have had occasion to have tried it yet. Maybe someone has by now, so I'll ask again:

While recording 4k, if zebras are enabled in the AX100, will they appear on the tablet's/phone's screen?
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Old March 28th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #715
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

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Originally Posted by Adriano Moroni View Post
What do you use to increase the colours of a 4k video like film? Many people use Neatvideo but I don't like to use it. Some suggestions?
In post. But, it's quite saturated already. Can't imagine you would need more saturation.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 05:42 PM   #716
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

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Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey View Post
Steve if your camera is right there
Plug the hdmi into a 1080 screen and give the word
Not playing much with camera because -- having spent a month with the jvc 4k last year -- the hangups are in post. Want to sort these issues out first.

So far xavc s clips load into imovie, fcpx, and media composer. That's a good start.

But, imove plays at 1-2fps.

Media composer plays at may 3-5fps. One can transcode from ama to dnxhd, but the time required is about 30 minutes for each 5 minutes. One 64gb card would take 12 hours to transcode!

fcpx takes a fair amount of time to generate prores proxy. The problem is that fcpx automatically makes a one-quarter sized proxy. This works fine for FHD when the proxy is 640x480. But with UHD the proxy is 4X larger at FHD. Stupid design. Non-Apple plug-ins generally do not work because they don't use the GPU system so they are way too slow.

Bottom-line, no post solution yet found. So the camera may be of no value to me as I'm wedded to a lightweight laptop and apple seems focused on battery life not performance. :(
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Last edited by Steve Mullen; March 28th, 2014 at 08:08 PM.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 06:51 PM   #717
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

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Originally Posted by Dale McClelland View Post
I've asked this before about using the tablet/phone app during 4k recording, but no one seemed to have had occasion to have tried it yet. Maybe someone has by now, so I'll ask again:

While recording 4k, if zebras are enabled in the AX100, will they appear on the tablet's/phone's screen?
No. You get only the zoom rocker and start/stop button on screen (with the live picture); no zebras or focus peaking colors show.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 07:00 PM   #718
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

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Originally Posted by Steve Mullen View Post
Not playing much with camera because -- having spent a month with the jvc 4k last year -- the hangups are in post. Want to sort these issues out first.

So far xavc s clips load into imovie, fcpx, and media composer. That's a good start.

But, imove plays at 1-2fps.

media composer plays at may 3-5fps. one can transcode from ama to dnxhd, but the time required is about 30 minutes for each 5 minutes. one 64gb card would take 12 hours to transcode!

fcpx takes a fair amount of time to generate prores proxy, but the famous green flashers that were supposedly fixed are present. Also some filters just create garbage with uhd.

bottom-line, no post solution yet found. So the camera may be of no value to me as I'm wedded to a lightweight laptop and apple seems focused on battery life not performance. :(
So, dump Apple: Vegas Pro, for example, has no trouble playing, editing or outputting XAVC on any Windows laptop. Almost all the troubles people have had with common video standards (e.g., AVCHD) and post to video forums have been people using Apple computers.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 07:11 PM   #719
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

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Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig View Post
No. You get only the zoom rocker and start/stop button on screen (with the live picture); no zebras or focus peaking colors show.
Thanks, Mark.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #720
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Re: Sony FDR-AX100

And editing on a laptop may be a little iffy unless it's a fairly beefy configuration. I tried some 1080 multicam, and was close with a second generation i7 Ultrabook, going to try again with a 3rd Gen i7...

I understand the joys of a light portable machine, but asking it to do heavy lifting may be a little much - mobile processors and video subsystems aren't usually up to the hardcore computing tasks that editing involves, and too many places for bottlenecks in such a tightly "integrated" system.

I've been spec'ing for a new desktop to replace an aging i7 920, and I'm expecting even a "fast" machine to have a bit of fun with 4K editing - although I'm finding integrated graphics quoting 4K @30p capability, along with the Seiki 39" TV, thinking it might make a decent "budget" setup for a while anyway!
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