Sony FDR-AX100

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

My preference is the GH4 due to the fact the firmware in the AX100 has to correct for the lens, which has a bad case of barrel distortion.

That kind of thing doesn't bother me as long as it's corrected one way or the other. It's the final picture that counts in my book.

[Kris Zimbelman]

Has this thread moved?

[Vaughan Wood]

Unfortunately not yet, I think!

I think it has just got too big and unwieldly no-one is bothering with it anymore!

Vaughan

[Joey Atilano]

I shot some super action stuff last weekend and noticed some new quirks. If you shoot rapidly as in record start stop , start stop type of shooting it will lag really bad. I was getting 4-5 seconds delay sometimes from hitting start to when it would record. Maybe it was the video writing to the card?

1080 60p and 720 120p RC cars

Losi 5ives at Irvine Lake RC - YouTube

4K RC Cars, The youtube stream looks super horrible even in 4K. On my computer it looks smooth.

Irvine Lake RC - Losi 5ive T in 4K - YouTube

[Mark Watson]

Joey,

Thanks for posting that cat-less video. I'm still waiting on my camera to arrive. I'm encouraged about the high-speed mode; not as worried about the rolling shutter anymore. May not even be an issue at the 720p resolution. In 120fps, is there a record time limitation, or does the memory card keep up?

Mark

[Joey Atilano]

Thanks Mark
There is no limitation on the 720 120fps mode that I know of. The 720 120fps mode is probably my favorite mode of all. If it was just a touch sharper.

As a micro review after having it a month the overall con is it is a little slow in general as in focus, zoom, reaction time in general. I like to switch between modes and resolutions a lot and it is a 2 menu process every time.

The pros are many picture quality #1 , Full manual control, EVF is awesome,4K 1080 60p and 720 120p ! Also nightshot.

[Ken Ross]

Joey, if you think this is slow, you should see the GH4. I currently have it, but will be returning it for a variety of reasons.

The autofocus is very slow and very unstable. As opposed to the Sony, it doesn't lock on to a subject that way the AX100 does. Additionally, the exposure is very stepped as is the case with most DLRS not using a constant aperture lens. As a result, you can get a sudden brightening or darkening of the image.

I also have a weird effect with shots at telephoto distances. It's almost as if the camera is seeing 'heat waves'. In fact if I weren't doing A/Bs at the time with my AX100, I would have attributed it to that, heat waves. It wasn't.

This has made me appreciate the AX100 that much more.

[Joey Atilano]

Ken I have been checking out your thread. I was tempted to switch to the GH4 if it was awesome even though its not full frame. I have a few L lens and an old 5D markII I'm guessing Canon will never put 4K in their normal DSLRs ,heck I don't think they have a 1080 60p video mode in one yet. I have really been looking at switching to Sony A7. Since I am just as much into photography I want full frame.

I think the AX100 will be great for a few years until 4K 120fps comes out on a new camcorder lol.

[Phil Lee]

Hi

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Joey, if you think this is slow, you should see the GH4. I currently have it, but will be returning it for a variety of reasons.

The autofocus is very slow and very unstable. As opposed to the Sony, it doesn't lock on to a subject that way the AX100 does. Additionally, the exposure is very stepped as is the case with most DLRS not using a constant aperture lens. As a result, you can get a sudden brightening or darkening of the image.

I also have a weird effect with shots at telephoto distances. It's almost as if the camera is seeing 'heat waves'. In fact if I weren't doing A/Bs at the time with my AX100, I would have attributed it to that, heat waves. It wasn't.

This has made me appreciate the AX100 that much more.

You seem to the be first person finding these issues, I don't see any problems in GH4 clips that have been posted or anyone else talking about it.

Perhaps you just have a faulty camera or lens and/or are expecting the GH4 to behave like a consumer camcorder, when most people understand it will not.

It's a digital mirror-less camera that shoots great video but needs some time and work for that, if you want point and shoot, a traditional camcorder is what you need and what you have.

Regards

Phil

[Dale McClelland]

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Joey, if you think this is slow, you should see the GH4. I currently have it, but will be returning it for a variety of reasons.

The autofocus is very slow and very unstable. As opposed to the Sony, it doesn't lock on to a subject that way the AX100 does. Additionally, the exposure is very stepped as is the case with most DLRS not using a constant aperture lens. As a result, you can get a sudden brightening or darkening of the image.

I also have a weird effect with shots at telephoto distances. It's almost as if the camera is seeing 'heat waves'. In fact if I weren't doing A/Bs at the time with my AX100, I would have attributed it to that, heat waves. It wasn't.

This has made me appreciate the AX100 that much more.

Ken, your mention of the GH4 autofocus being "very unstable" caught my attention. I've been trying to decide between buying the GH4 and AX100. In many videos I have seen from m4/3 cameras and DSLR's, including some pre-release GH4 videos, the AF locks in, then loses focus at some point during shooting and has to refocus. This sometimes occurs even if the subject isn't moving and the camera is not being panned or zoomed. The only movement of the camera is the small movements caused by being used hand-held.

Does the GH4 do this? And does the AX100 do this? I haven't seen it in AX100 youtube or Vimeo videos, but it may have been edited out before posting.

I am used to small sensor Sony camcorders (like the CX760V with a tiny 1/2.88 sensor) which have deep depth-of-field, so I have never experienced a loss of focus during shooting. I would not like dealing with the loss of auto-focus mid-shot, and don't want to learn to use manual focus (I use manual exposure often, but don't won't to bother with manual focus -- it's too hard with old eyes, even with using the peaking feature.) The GH4 m4/3 sensor, and even the AX100 1" sensor are much larger than the CX760V's sensor, so I am concerned about the AF issue with either choice.

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Phil Lee

Hi

You seem to the be first person finding these issues, I don't see any problems in GH4 clips that have been posted or anyone else talking about it.

Perhaps you just have a faulty camera or lens and/or are expecting the GH4 to behave like a consumer camcorder, when most people understand it will not.

It's a digital mirror-less camera that shoots great video but needs some time and work for that, if you want point and shoot, a traditional camcorder is what you need and what you have.

Regards

Phil

Hi
Of course Phil you will never have anything good to say about the AX100. That's already been established more times than I can count on MUTIPLE forums. Just as when I posted a video of the major issue I was having with the 'heat wave' effect, your only comment was how you had seen something like that on the AX100. Comments from you on the actual GH4 video I posted? None. Only an obscure reference to having seen 'something like that on the AX100'. Very funny. Yet I have yet to see ANY AX100 video that shows anything like what I posted with the GH4.

Phil, I don't know what your motivation is for so despising the Sony, but I find it so very odd. I suspect one day we'll find out. Don't you find the GH4 makes you 'physically ill' as you've stated numerous times relative to the AX100? Or does the same 30fps on the GH4 make you 'feel better'?

Phil, I have had numerous DSLRs and have shot lots of video with them and know full well what their foibles are. I know the autofocus on DSLRs when shooting video is poor. However the issues I was having with the GH4 went beyond that and I proved that with video evidence. I don't have any grudges against one camera vs another as you most obviously do.

I was perfectly willing to work a bit harder for good video that exceeded that of the AX100, but even when I did work harder for those results, I found the video produced by the AX100 to be superior, IMO. We know for a fact that its resolution is higher than the GH4. That's been tested and proved.

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Dale McClelland

Ken, your mention of the GH4 autofocus being "very unstable" caught my attention. I've been trying to decide between buying the GH4 and AX100. In many videos I have seen from m4/3 cameras and DSLR's, including some pre-release GH4 videos, the AF locks in, then loses focus at some point during shooting and has to refocus. This sometimes occurs even if the subject isn't moving and the camera is not being panned or zoomed. The only movement of the camera is the small movements caused by being used hand-held.

Does the GH4 do this? And does the AX100 do this? I haven't seen it in AX100 youtube or Vimeo videos, but it may have been edited out before posting.

I am used to small sensor Sony camcorders (like the CX760V with a tiny 1/2.88 sensor) which have deep depth-of-field, so I have never experienced a loss of focus during shooting. I would not like dealing with the loss of auto-focus mid-shot, and don't want to learn to use manual focus (I use manual exposure often, but don't won't to bother with manual focus -- it's too hard with old eyes, even with using the peaking feature.) The GH4 m4/3 sensor, and even the AX100 1" sensor are much larger than the CX760V's sensor, so I am concerned about the AF issue with either choice.

Dale, you are precisely correct. Every DSLR I've ever had (with the exception of the RX10, which some might not consider a true DSLR) does exactly what you said. They will take a second or longer to catch the focus AFTER you hit the record button. So the beginning of the shot is invariably lost. Then, at some point during the clip, the focus will hunt for no good reason. It doesn't happen all the time, but often enough to be very annoying...at least for me.

My GH2 & GH3 behaved exactly the same way and yes, unfortunately my GH4 has done the same thing. It is very annoying and really necessitates you abandoning autofocus if you want to ensure you get the shot correct from start to finish. This was clear in many pre-release GH4 videos, but I was hoping the final firmware would address it. It didn't.

Since my pleasure video taking is more of a 'run n gun' style, this does not lend itself well to this kind of shooting. There are too many instances where you don't have the luxury of setting up a shot or the shot requires instant capture to avoid missing it entirely. Many things we shoot happen quickly and won't wait for you to adjust all the parameters in manual mode.

The additional issue with DSLR video shooting, is a tendency for exposure to change in 'steps' rather than a smooth ramping that occurs in camcorders. Personally I find this very distracting and it's evident in the GH4 too.

Put simply, you need to take extra time to ensure that shots are successful when using a DSLR. Where you have the luxury to do this, it's fine, when you don't it's not.

Now the AX100's autofocus is great. It generally locks on quickly (there may be some exceptions) and the focus simply does not drift, It makes no difference if you're zooming or pulling back from a tight shot, the focus stays locked. The result is, IMO, more professional looking.

The major thing you are missing in the AX100 is a DSLR level of control over DOF. So although you can get some relatively shallow DOF shots with the AX100 by either shooting close to your subject with a wide aperture or by shooting at longer zoom ratios, you won't have quite as much control.

I find this a very acceptable 'limitation' given the ease of shooting and the many foibles of DSLR shooting.

To be honest, I've given up on the GH4 and will only shoot with the AX100. With the Sony, shot after shot after shot is perfect. If there are any shots that are off the mark, it's almost always my fault. :)

[Dale McClelland]

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

The major thing you are missing in the AX100 is a DSLR level of control over DOF. So although you can get some relatively shallow DOF shots with the AX100 by either shooting close to your subject with a wide aperture or by shooting at longer zoom ratios, you won't have quite as much control.

Thanks, Ken. That pretty much settles it for me in favor of the AX100 and confirms what I have seen. Also people on the GH forums have told me that with m4/3 cameras and DSLRs it is best to shoot video with manual focus.

As far as less ability to get shallow DOF with the AX100, that is exactly what I want. I only shoot vacation and family events and want the video to look like what I saw with my eyes. So shallow DOF is not something I need or want.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Joey Atilano

4K RC Cars

Could be the youtube compression but it looks like with that fast moving objects the codec in 4k is getting stressed much more as in 1080p as I do see more artifacts, eventhough it appears a bit sharper then the footage shot at 1080p.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Dale McClelland

Thanks, Ken. That pretty much settles it for me in favor of the AX100 and confirms what I have seen. Also people on the GH forums have told me that with m4/3 cameras and DSLRs it is best to shoot video with manual focus.

I have a cx730 and a gh3 and in terms of functionality these camera are somewhat comparable with resp the ax100 and gh4, a gh3/4 is not exactly a run a gun camera, at least not compared to a cx730/ax100, the ax100 has a larger sensor which also contributes in a shallower dof making focusing more tricky then on a cx730 but I expect it to perform much better then on a gh4. The ax100 is actually a "real" palmsized videocamera with stepless exposure changes, build in ND's, smooth zoom, just to name a few functions of what you won't be finding back in small formfactor dslr's, the gh4 makes a good effort adding functionality that is much needed for making video but it remains a camera that takes more effort to get it right.