Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100

Aaron Holmes · October 15th, 2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Buckhout

Can someone repost the test footage from the X70? The download link isn't working anymore.

+1. That would be really helpful.

Christopher Young · October 16th, 2014, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Buckhout

Can someone repost the test footage from the X70? The download link isn't working anymore.

I have them here but it will take a couple of hours to upload them as it's nearly 1.2GB of files. They are being uploaded as I write. Once I have them uploaded I will post a link to them.

There are about fifteen files in total and Gabor Heeres the original poster shot these in XAVC-L 50-mbit 422 10-bit MXF at 50p. If your NLE software won't see them you can convert them with Sony's new Catalyst Browse to XAVC-! files at 230-mbits. A single file at a time only though! They become a lot larger, 4.5 to 5 times larger but until Sony releases the plugin for this new XAVC-L MXF wrapped codec what else can you do.

If you have Edius 7 it will take the original X70 files with no issues. Or you could download MainConcepts 'TotalCode' conversion software [trial version available] as TotalCode sees these files without any difficulties. MainConcept are the people writing the bulk of Sony's NLE plugins so that comes as hardly any surprise.

Professional Video Encoding Software | TotalCode Studio Professional Encoding: MainConcept

From TotalCode you can do a batch conversion from the 'Watch folder' to XAVC-Intra the 220+mbit I frame codec. Just make sure you select the 1920 x 1080 'XAVC-Intra CBG' preset BEFORE you select the watch folder, which is the folder where you should have the downloaded files. Most NLEs will handle the exported XAVC-I files.

Over the weekend I will have an X70 here on loan to run some tests. I will endeavour to upload some original clips from the camera on Mon or Tues depending on work commitments.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

David Dixon · October 16th, 2014, 06:35 AM

Fantastic!
A few requests for your testing based on things I haven't seen much of in samples to date...

--a quick test of various Gain levels
--general handheld shots where there is some movement of subject and/or camera. I'm not talking extreme stuff, just something less static than most of the samples so far. This would test stabilization, rolling shutter, the codec, autofocus, etc.

Thanks!

Christopher Young · October 16th, 2014, 06:46 AM

Yes David I will be checking out most of those aspects in manual as well as auto as they are the sort of things that interest me as well.

Gabor's originall X70 XAVC-L files are up if anyone wants to check them out. The download link is:

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/febb4i

Be back early next week hopefully with footage!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Mike Buckhout · October 16th, 2014, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

Gabor's originall X70 XAVC-L files are up if anyone wants to check them out. The download link is:

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/febb4i

Thanks for reposting these files Chris!

I can confirm that they work flawlessly on my MacPro running 10.9.5 and the latest version of Premiere Pro CC - the 2014.1 release.

Anthony Lelli · October 20th, 2014, 01:44 AM

it's like when you don't sleep (ever) when you have your first child : you are tired, red eyes but then he/she smiles once! and you forget everything. I did a gig on a club (my first with the X70) , then 115 clips to pass via catalyst (3 hrs transcoding.. a royal pain!) but then I saw the very first clip on vegas and I forgot everything. I was using a shoulder mount and active stabilization (you lose a bit on the wide end) but I was amazed how stable the footage came out (considering that I was in the middle of the dancing, and dancing myself while shooting. basically a pitch dark scene @30db and "club lighting" : I felt like I had an Alexa instead of a little handycam! Philip Johnston said about this "wee" camera : "Sony have delivered a true jaw dropping picture out of a camcorder that most seasoned professionals would sneer at…till they saw the pictures !". And I agree completely.

anyway until the friends @Sony's will fix this nonsense of unreadable XAVC's if you use catalyst browse you can start the first transcoding and then while working select all the others (one by one) in some sort of queue and go get a coffee (or lunch) and let the queue finish.

on a side note hdmi out and sdi dont' work at the same time (annoying but ehy... look at the size of that little monster! LOL

Christopher Young · October 20th, 2014, 08:44 PM

I have uploaded a few files from my first familiarization run with this camera. There is a combination of shots looking at the different PPs plus various shots with zooms, auto and manual iris functions, rolling shutter quick pans etc. All pretty basic really. These clips were from day one whist I was trying to come up with a PP setting I thought would work to my liking. Mind you the ‘look’ of a camera is a personal thing so some of you might totally disagree with what I have ended up with.
Unfortunately I didn’t have time to do any low light shots or hand held stuff because I was mainly concentrating on settings and adjustment while hooked up to scopes. A lot easier to do that off sticks.

For people on Windows who can't play these X70 the files I suggest downloading the non-installer portable Media Player Classic - Home Cinema 64-bit version v1.7.7 which will play the X70 XAVC files just fine. It must be version 1.7.7.

Download Media Player Classic Home Cinema (64-bit portable) v1.7.7 (open source) - AfterDawn: Software downloads

Bearing in mind that what I was aiming for was a ready rolled 'look' that requires very little or no grading. A quick shoot, edit and deliver set up in other words. To try and get that look I ended up modifying PP4 for my uses. The changes made were to keep the video in the 16-235 delivery range and to try and achieve a natural looking roll off to the highlights and minimise white clipping whilst at the same time being careful to not crush the black levels too much.

All my initial settings were done on the grey scale and color chip charts using a WFM and Vector. Final tweaks were done outside in the real world while still monitoring everything on the scopes. It’s all still a work in progress. At this point I think I can probably squeeze a little more out of the camera to suit what I’m after. I would probably end up with two or three PPs with variations to cover different scenarios. After two days with the camera I was impressed enough with it that I have just ordered one. I can definitely see some uses for it here.

Likes - Most things.

Dislikes - Battery release not well placed. You cannot reach the release easily when using certain tripod plates. No on-off switch! If you close the flip screen while the viewfinder is in the retracted position the camera shuts down. I did that a couple of times! If the viewfinder is in the extended position you can then shut the flip screen without the camera shutting down. Problem with this though is if you are on sticks and get close to the viewfinder with your arm or body the viewfinder sensor switches off the flip screen. For the life of me I can’t find anything in the menus or manual where this viewfinder auto switch sensor can be overridden. Another weird Sony idea that I hope gets an override solution in an upcoming firmware update.

No standalone charger supplied. HATE having to charge a battery via a camera.

Regarding the download, beware it will be pretty big, about 2.4 GB. I will post the link once it’s all uploaded which will be some hours later today.

In the meantime if anyone doesn’t want a big download but wants to look at some different shots I did the following day I have stuck them together as a smaller MP4. It was all shot XAVC-L 50-mbit 4:2:2 10-bit at 50p with 100th shutter. I purposely chose a high contrast location where I knew I would have extreme whites in full blazing sun along with deep shadows plus some people around for some skin tone colors and exposures. What better place than a marina. Excuse some of the shaky shots at the long end as it was very windy. The clip can be downloaded here.

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/t9yiwl

Finally many thanks to the good guys, especially Scott at Lemac in Sydney for making the unit available for test. Thanks Scotty.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Paul Anderegg · October 20th, 2014, 11:38 PM

Christopher, I love the "ready rolled" concept very much. I shoot news and LIVE shots with my X70, and most people want that DSLR RAW flat look for grading. I have a separate post in the XAVC forum where I am doing extensive vectorwavescoping of my X70, to get the most accurate colors and bestest video right out of the camera.

I found that the STILL color mode is better at adjusting to perfection than the ITU709 version, as you only get two color revisions on the vectorscope using the menu. I took my camera into a professional facility (GRC Electronics, El Cajon) to see if they could do any better than my DSC chart scoping, and after they put the camera on their backlit 3200k calibrated box, it was found it was as good as it could get with the adjustments available. We did find a few things I need to take care of. First, when using preset or manual kelvin WB, the camera had a definite (slight egg shape on the vectorscope) green shift on black balance. Apparently, the push to white performs a black balance adjustment that is not achievable in the other white settings. Good to know. Also, the calibrated 3200k box produced a push to white of 3300k on the Sony. The indoor preset is close enough as to be practically unnoticeable as different in color production.

I am finalizing the DSC chart settings for STILL and ITU709, and the only adjustments that cannot be done on the scope are the COLOR DEPTH ones. The only way to adjust the color depth settings for each color is to point the camera at an object with a shade you want to play with, and adjust up and down until that color appears natural in the EVF/LCD. A cool thing about the depth settings is that you can darken a blue sky, or make green grass pop, independent of other colors or total colorimetry.

Paul

Christopher Young · October 21st, 2014, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

I have uploaded a few files from my first familiarization run with this camera.

For those who want to look directly at camera files here is the link to a few XAVC 50-mbit 50p files from my first encounter with the X70. Beware it is a 2.4GB download

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/0w5zat

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Mike Buckhout · October 22nd, 2014, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

No on-off switch! If you close the flip screen while the viewfinder is in the retracted position the camera shuts down. I did that a couple of times! If the viewfinder is in the extended position you can then shut the flip screen without the camera shutting down. Problem with this though is if you are on sticks and get close to the viewfinder with your arm or body the viewfinder sensor switches off the flip screen. For the life of me I can’t find anything in the menus or manual where this viewfinder auto switch sensor can be overridden. Another weird Sony idea that I hope gets an override solution in an upcoming firmware update.

I don't have my X70 in hand yet, but the manual seems to indicate there is a POWER button, although it does not show where that is. Also, it would be good to point out that the camera will not shut down while it is recording, regardless of the position of the LCD or viewfinder, at least that is what the manual says on page 24:

Quote:

Originally Posted by X70 Operations Manual

"When recording movies or when connected to another device via USB, the camcorder does not turn off even if the LCD screen is closed and the viewfinder is returned to its original position."

Paul Anderegg · October 22nd, 2014, 10:47 AM

The on/off button is under the flip screen, same as the 100/900. You can If needed flip the panel facing outward and the camera will stay on, although that leaves the shiny side susceptible to damage.

One thing I found very irritating about my X70, is that if you have the LCD open, and the EVF pulled out, the picture will swap back and forth every couple of seconds between the two. In other words, you CANNOT use the EVF with LCD open, or use the LCD with the EVF pulled out. At least that has been my experience with it operating at night.

Paul

Christopher Young · October 23rd, 2014, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Buckhout

but the manual seems to indicate there is a POWER button

Strictly speaking you are right.

There is an ON / STANDBY button in behind the flip screen that enables you to turn the camera on from stone cold dead. It still doesn't overcome the problem that if the viewfinder is in the retracted OFF position and you close the flip screen the camera will power down to standby. If the viewfinder is extended it is then in the ON position. The problem is that the viewfinder auto switching sensor is now alive with the viewfinder on. Wave your hand or anything close to the viewfinder or the back of the camera for that matter and the flip screen turns off until whatever activated the eyepiece sensor has been removed, i.e. your body or arm. Remove whatever activated the sensor and then the flip screen comes alive and will stay alive until such time as something comes close to the viewfinder or back of the camera again. Should you want to keep the camera on and shut the flip screen you must turn the viewfinder ON. If the viewfinder is retracted in the OFF position and you shut the flip screen the camera powers down to standby.

I just found it a bit annoying to have to remember to pull out the viewfinder every time I wanted to shut the screen but not turn power down the camera when I moved the sticks to a new location. It's just a habit of mine to close screens when picking up camera and sticks in one go. Less likelihood of damaging the screen. As Paul points out it is very annoying to have the screen keep turning on and off if you move around behind the camera with the viewfinder switched on. As yet I have discovered no way of bypassing the viewfinder auto sensor in the menu. There again it could be me totally missing a menu setting but I don't think so,

This is probably my major complaint operationally, apart from everything being so small, even for my average sized hands. Like the ND switch being very easy to accidentally overshoot with when selecting an ND because it has very firm detent positions and a very short throw.

Notwithstanding it's a great little camera and punches / shoots well above its weight. For that price / performance / feature ratio there is little to compare. I look forward to getting one because I had forgotten what joy is was to move around various locations with such a small lightweight kit.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Mike Griffiths · October 23rd, 2014, 06:47 AM

You say standby by but is it really standby? Once the screen is shut I think the power is off. It just seems to power up very quickly, unlike my old HMC150 which had a standby mode to avoid that problem but then drained the battery steadily until it was turned off properly

Christopher Young · October 23rd, 2014, 09:26 AM

Mike I can't test that out as the camera has gone back to the dealer but from memory if you pushed the button in it shut down completely. If you just shut the screen it went into standby hence the quick start on opening the screen. First time up I had to turn the camera on with that button which in the manual is called ON / STANDBY.

Will find out for sure when mine arrives I guess!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Mike Buckhout · October 23rd, 2014, 02:33 PM

Just checking- the SDI output on the X70 is a female connector, so you would need a regular size male SDI cable to connect to that?

I am curious because when using, say the Atomos Samurai and the X70, I think you would want a male SDI to male mini-SDI to make the connection between the two devices, but the cables that Atomos sells for this purpose are only male on the mini end of the connector- Atomos 2 x 9" SDI Cables for Samurai Recorder ATOMCAB001

So using that would require another male-male SDI cable for the camera to connect, right?

October 16th, 2014, 06:35 AM	#333
David Dixon Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 495	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Fantastic! A few requests for your testing based on things I haven't seen much of in samples to date... --a quick test of various Gain levels --general handheld shots where there is some movement of subject and/or camera. I'm not talking extreme stuff, just something less static than most of the samples so far. This would test stabilization, rolling shutter, the codec, autofocus, etc. Thanks!

October 16th, 2014, 06:46 AM	#334
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,528	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Yes David I will be checking out most of those aspects in manual as well as auto as they are the sort of things that interest me as well. Gabor's originall X70 XAVC-L files are up if anyone wants to check them out. The download link is: www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/febb4i Be back early next week hopefully with footage! Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

October 20th, 2014, 01:44 AM	#336
Anthony Lelli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: New York City Posts: 329	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 it's like when you don't sleep (ever) when you have your first child : you are tired, red eyes but then he/she smiles once! and you forget everything. I did a gig on a club (my first with the X70) , then 115 clips to pass via catalyst (3 hrs transcoding.. a royal pain!) but then I saw the very first clip on vegas and I forgot everything. I was using a shoulder mount and active stabilization (you lose a bit on the wide end) but I was amazed how stable the footage came out (considering that I was in the middle of the dancing, and dancing myself while shooting. basically a pitch dark scene @30db and "club lighting" : I felt like I had an Alexa instead of a little handycam! Philip Johnston said about this "wee" camera : "Sony have delivered a true jaw dropping picture out of a camcorder that most seasoned professionals would sneer at…till they saw the pictures !". And I agree completely. anyway until the friends @Sony's will fix this nonsense of unreadable XAVC's if you use catalyst browse you can start the first transcoding and then while working select all the others (one by one) in some sort of queue and go get a coffee (or lunch) and let the queue finish. on a side note hdmi out and sdi dont' work at the same time (annoying but ehy... look at the size of that little monster! LOL

October 20th, 2014, 08:44 PM	#337
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,528	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 I have uploaded a few files from my first familiarization run with this camera. There is a combination of shots looking at the different PPs plus various shots with zooms, auto and manual iris functions, rolling shutter quick pans etc. All pretty basic really. These clips were from day one whist I was trying to come up with a PP setting I thought would work to my liking. Mind you the ‘look’ of a camera is a personal thing so some of you might totally disagree with what I have ended up with. Unfortunately I didn’t have time to do any low light shots or hand held stuff because I was mainly concentrating on settings and adjustment while hooked up to scopes. A lot easier to do that off sticks. For people on Windows who can't play these X70 the files I suggest downloading the non-installer portable Media Player Classic - Home Cinema 64-bit version v1.7.7 which will play the X70 XAVC files just fine. It must be version 1.7.7. Download Media Player Classic Home Cinema (64-bit portable) v1.7.7 (open source) - AfterDawn: Software downloads Bearing in mind that what I was aiming for was a ready rolled 'look' that requires very little or no grading. A quick shoot, edit and deliver set up in other words. To try and get that look I ended up modifying PP4 for my uses. The changes made were to keep the video in the 16-235 delivery range and to try and achieve a natural looking roll off to the highlights and minimise white clipping whilst at the same time being careful to not crush the black levels too much. All my initial settings were done on the grey scale and color chip charts using a WFM and Vector. Final tweaks were done outside in the real world while still monitoring everything on the scopes. It’s all still a work in progress. At this point I think I can probably squeeze a little more out of the camera to suit what I’m after. I would probably end up with two or three PPs with variations to cover different scenarios. After two days with the camera I was impressed enough with it that I have just ordered one. I can definitely see some uses for it here. Likes - Most things. Dislikes - Battery release not well placed. You cannot reach the release easily when using certain tripod plates. No on-off switch! If you close the flip screen while the viewfinder is in the retracted position the camera shuts down. I did that a couple of times! If the viewfinder is in the extended position you can then shut the flip screen without the camera shutting down. Problem with this though is if you are on sticks and get close to the viewfinder with your arm or body the viewfinder sensor switches off the flip screen. For the life of me I can’t find anything in the menus or manual where this viewfinder auto switch sensor can be overridden. Another weird Sony idea that I hope gets an override solution in an upcoming firmware update. No standalone charger supplied. HATE having to charge a battery via a camera. Regarding the download, beware it will be pretty big, about 2.4 GB. I will post the link once it’s all uploaded which will be some hours later today. In the meantime if anyone doesn’t want a big download but wants to look at some different shots I did the following day I have stuck them together as a smaller MP4. It was all shot XAVC-L 50-mbit 4:2:2 10-bit at 50p with 100th shutter. I purposely chose a high contrast location where I knew I would have extreme whites in full blazing sun along with deep shadows plus some people around for some skin tone colors and exposures. What better place than a marina. Excuse some of the shaky shots at the long end as it was very windy. The clip can be downloaded here. www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/t9yiwl Finally many thanks to the good guys, especially Scott at Lemac in Sydney for making the unit available for test. Thanks Scotty. Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney Last edited by Christopher Young; October 21st, 2014 at 02:32 AM. Reason: spello?

October 20th, 2014, 11:38 PM	#338
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Christopher, I love the "ready rolled" concept very much. I shoot news and LIVE shots with my X70, and most people want that DSLR RAW flat look for grading. I have a separate post in the XAVC forum where I am doing extensive vectorwavescoping of my X70, to get the most accurate colors and bestest video right out of the camera. I found that the STILL color mode is better at adjusting to perfection than the ITU709 version, as you only get two color revisions on the vectorscope using the menu. I took my camera into a professional facility (GRC Electronics, El Cajon) to see if they could do any better than my DSC chart scoping, and after they put the camera on their backlit 3200k calibrated box, it was found it was as good as it could get with the adjustments available. We did find a few things I need to take care of. First, when using preset or manual kelvin WB, the camera had a definite (slight egg shape on the vectorscope) green shift on black balance. Apparently, the push to white performs a black balance adjustment that is not achievable in the other white settings. Good to know. Also, the calibrated 3200k box produced a push to white of 3300k on the Sony. The indoor preset is close enough as to be practically unnoticeable as different in color production. I am finalizing the DSC chart settings for STILL and ITU709, and the only adjustments that cannot be done on the scope are the COLOR DEPTH ones. The only way to adjust the color depth settings for each color is to point the camera at an object with a shade you want to play with, and adjust up and down until that color appears natural in the EVF/LCD. A cool thing about the depth settings is that you can darken a blue sky, or make green grass pop, independent of other colors or total colorimetry. Paul

October 22nd, 2014, 10:47 AM	#341
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 The on/off button is under the flip screen, same as the 100/900. You can If needed flip the panel facing outward and the camera will stay on, although that leaves the shiny side susceptible to damage. One thing I found very irritating about my X70, is that if you have the LCD open, and the EVF pulled out, the picture will swap back and forth every couple of seconds between the two. In other words, you CANNOT use the EVF with LCD open, or use the LCD with the EVF pulled out. At least that has been my experience with it operating at night. Paul

October 23rd, 2014, 06:47 AM	#343
Mike Griffiths Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Chiang Mai Thailand Posts: 152	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 You say standby by but is it really standby? Once the screen is shut I think the power is off. It just seems to power up very quickly, unlike my old HMC150 which had a standby mode to avoid that problem but then drained the battery steadily until it was turned off properly __________________ Mike

October 23rd, 2014, 09:26 AM	#344
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,528	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Mike I can't test that out as the camera has gone back to the dealer but from memory if you pushed the button in it shut down completely. If you just shut the screen it went into standby hence the quick start on opening the screen. First time up I had to turn the camera on with that button which in the manual is called ON / STANDBY. Will find out for sure when mine arrives I guess! Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

October 23rd, 2014, 02:33 PM	#345
Mike Buckhout Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 62	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Just checking- the SDI output on the X70 is a female connector, so you would need a regular size male SDI cable to connect to that? I am curious because when using, say the Atomos Samurai and the X70, I think you would want a male SDI to male mini-SDI to make the connection between the two devices, but the cables that Atomos sells for this purpose are only male on the mini end of the connector- Atomos 2 x 9" SDI Cables for Samurai Recorder ATOMCAB001 So using that would require another male-male SDI cable for the camera to connect, right?