Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100

James R. Wilson Sr. · January 22nd, 2015, 07:41 AM

That sounds like a great interface. As we've said, hard to understand what Sony is thinking. A quick conversation with any of us out in the field would tell them that all of this was a bad idea.

Paul Anderegg · January 22nd, 2015, 07:51 AM

Being able to slightly increase/decrease things like gain makes sense for quality, but the old standard 3 position toggle is much better for fast paced things like ENG.

Paul

Christopher Young · January 29th, 2015, 07:56 AM

Don't know if anyone is interested but I picked up a couple of step up step down rings to try out on a Sony VCL-HG0872 zoom thru wide angle adapter that's been sitting on the shelf for some years. It caught my eye, much like the Fujinon adapter did and it got me thinking again... "I wonder if that will work on the x70?"

The step up ring is a 62-77mm ring and the step down ring is a 77-72mm. The reason these two rings were required was to reach past the extended rear flange ring on the back of VCL-HG0872, see last pix. These two rings when mounted clear the diameter of the extended flange by about 1mm all round. I think this flange ring was designed to protect the rear element should the lens be placed back end end down onto a flat surface.

The Sony VCL-HG0872 zoom thru wide angle adapter was originally released for the Sony Z1 HDV Hi-Def camcorder. It's a quality 4 element 3 group piece of glass. Was about $750 if memory serves me right. The Z1 camcorder had a 72mm screw in front thread with a recessed front element so the flange ring wasn't a problem. With the x70 though you can't use a single 62-72mm step up ring because it won't reach the threads on the back of the adapter. By using the two rings listed above the combo works very well indeed. First tests are showing minimal curvature and pretty even sharpness across the field of view. In fact I can see it being used quite often. The only 'con' I guess is its weight, 550 grams so it's no lightweight but with the left hand under it it's pretty comfortable to use.

I've attached a few pix of how it all goes together. The second last pix has the lens backed of a couple of turns so that I could show the adapter model details. It actually has a four rotation engagement so very secure when mounted. Most filters have two full rotations of engagement. The last pix shows the extended flange ring that necessitates the two ring solution.

There are also a couple of short MP4s, (2 x 15secs, 17MB) that can be downloaded from:

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/9pe65e

The above clips originated as 1080i AVCHD and have been converted to 1280 x 720 25p for upload sake so not the best quality but they will give you an idea on the quite usable extra FOV gained by using a VCL-HG0872.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Tom Grushka · January 29th, 2015, 08:26 PM

Very nice, Chris.

You and Paul have been so helpful in getting everything possible out of this cam. I ordered it Monday and have to wait until next Monday for its arrival due to the inclement weather in NY. :( Patience, Tom, patience!

A few questions:

Is the mic you're using similar in length to the Rode NTG-3 (25.5cm)? I want to mount that mic and hope it won't intrude into the shot. Even with the WC?

And, I think I read somewhere that you found some rubber o-rings to make it fit the holder. (Or was that someone else?) Please forgive my asking again if you've answered it, but how are you holding your mic in there?

Apparently I can buy the VCL-HG0872 used for around $100. But since it's a bit heavy, and requires all the adapters ... is there something lighter out there with similar image quality and budget (used of course)? Or, would you choose this particular one for the X70 even if you didn't have it already?

Thanks.

Christopher Young · January 30th, 2015, 01:39 AM

Hi Tom ~

The mic is a Panasonic AJ-MC700P which was the standard issue mic on the Panasonic DVC Pro 50 and P2 HD cams. They are actually manufactured by RAMSA which is Panasonic's Pro Audio division. I had three of them floating around from the days when all our kit was DVC Pro 50 so I thought I would check one out on the x70 and it performs beautifully. It should! They were a high spec mic and cost a fortune then which was years back.

They are basically the same size, just a touch wider but a bit shorter than the Sony ECM-XM1 that comes on the FS700 and a number of other Sony cams. They are 5.5" long in the body and just over 0.75" in diameter. I had a number of the Sony neoprene mic sleeves lying around so used one of those and it's a pretty close fit so stayed with it. It fills the gap between the mic body and the inner rubber mount in the mic holder just about spot on. Physically it is much closer to the Rode NTG-1 in overall size. Nowhere near as long and directional as the NTG-3.

No I didn't mention the 'O' rings but I see no reason why a solution based around those couldn't be worked out. My old favorite solution was to find a black mouse mat made of similar material to a wet suit and cut a square out of it to wrap around the mic body. That usually worked very well. The other trick was to criss cross a thin rubber band along the mic body before you put the windshield on. Do that and you will hardly ever have a windshield fall off and get lost or damaged.

If you look further back through these posts you will see my post relating to the smaller lighter Fujinon WCV-82SC which is a .82 zoom through wide angle adapter. I also outlined the method I used to mount it. I find both adapters work well but that the Sony has got me being a tad wider at .80 and it has less distortion than the Fujinon. Not saying the Fujinon is bad not at all but I think I will be using the Sony more often than not in spite of its size and weight. In full zoom through adapters I don't know anything else that works.

I think Paul was using one of these with step rings to good effect. Maybe he can chime in with his experience re that solution.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/652920-REG/16x9_Inc_169_HDWC8X_82_169_HDWC8X_82_EXII_0_8x_Wide.html

There probably are other solutions out there but unless Sony comes up with a specific unit for the x70 I'll stick with these two for now.

Pix of comparative lens sizes and the mics. You can see the neoprene sleeve on the Sony one.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Andy Wilkinson · January 30th, 2015, 01:59 AM

For those looking for a good, short, pretty inexpensive (I paid about £100) and easily available on-board shotgun mic for the PXW-X70, the AT875R might be a very good choice too. I bought one a while back for my C100 as I found my Rode NTG-3 way too long/getting into frame on wider shots. Nice and hot, but not as directional as my NTG-3. Will give good clean sound - well as clean as any on-board mic is capable of giving in that very imperfect position...

I've promoted using O rings to bulk out the width of mics in camera mic clamps at various stages on here a while back - can't claim to have invented the solution though! The mousemat type material idea is also something I've tried with good effect in the past too (in my case I cut up an old soft glasses cases/pouch).

But if you really want the best suspension for any on-board mic, I'd always recommend the Rycote Invision Video suspension system. I took the Sony mic clamp off my EX3 (and again now off my PMW-300) to use this instead - but it might be a bit big and bulky on top of the rather small PXW-X70!!!

Brian Murphy · January 30th, 2015, 11:01 AM

Is anyone on this thread shooting with a PMW300 and a PXW_X70? I am thinking of buying an X70 and a second for my 300 and wondered if anyone had any observations. Hockey playoffs in the spring usually bring my American network neighbours up ( if les Canadiens do well) as it did last year. The PMW 300 is a sensational camera for sports and scrums but it would be nice to have a second angle as a "value added" incentive for them. Lots of great material on this thread and it really helps to hear true hands on experience.
Thanks
Brian

Anthony Lelli · January 30th, 2015, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

For those looking for a good, short, pretty inexpensive (I paid about £100) and easily available on-board shotgun mic for the PXW-X70, the AT875R might be a very good choice too.

the AT875R comes with two o-rings actually. even cheaper are the sony 1-542-296 (the first version was made by sony but the second version was the AT875 actually with the only difference that had a cord built-in). the sound is the same as the AT875R for both.

the problem with the X70 is the position of the mic-holder that's too low. so a dead cat like the one in the Christopher Young's set-up will enter the frame at the wide zoom and with a wide attached then it will DEFINITELY enter the frame, unless we (in here) wanna talk about "looks" without actually shooting. and that would be fine with me."looks" are important too.

Paul Anderegg · February 3rd, 2015, 02:28 AM

Chris, I use an MC700 as well, with the same Sony rubber sleeve. I use the windscreen off of my MC900 though.

The EXII and your Sony WA are best IMO, because they allow the little snout of the X70 to nestle into the sweet sharp center glass of the converter. My EXII is practically impossible to pick out in shots, even when at full telephoto at night. I am very happy with it,a nd the weight is really not a factor to me. The handgrip is so large and comfortable that you don't notice, especially if you have used slightly larger 3 chip cameras such as the HM600 type.

Paul

Andy Wilkinson · February 6th, 2015, 10:01 AM

Found another PXW-X70 shooting test video on YouTube today.

David Dixon · February 7th, 2015, 02:05 AM

A lot of users are aiming for a finished look in-camera, but I'm still experimenting with shooting flat and adjusting in post. Here's where I am so far on that. This has excerpts from a recent longer piece for a community art center with the X70 - you'll hear jumps in the music from the cuts.

XAVC 1080p60, transcoded to ProRes 422 in Catalyst Browse and edited in FCPX.
Exposure was manual: gain -3db, shutter 60, lens always wide open. Next time I’ll probably put Gain at 0 so I can shoot with shutter at 125.
I used Paul Anderegg’s latest color correction settings for ITU709. They worked great.
I used the scopes in FCPX to adjust exposure/curves and added saturation and a touch of sharpening. I wouldn't go so far as to call it grading, but I really enjoy the creative aspect of working with the image in post.

Settings I used:

Black Level at max: +15
Gamma (and Color Mode) ITU709 - I’m liking it better than Cinematone if going for flatter highlights
Black Gamma also at max: High, +7
Knee: it’s difficult to get flat highlights on the camera. Really low Point and Slope at the same time give weird neon electric looks to anything in the frame that is above about 85 IRE. So I’m still experimenting with one low and one higher. Some of this was shot with Point at 92.5% and Slope at -5, some with Point at 80% and Slope at -1. I am still not totally satisfied with these and still testing.
Saturation -2
Color Phase +1 (per Paul Anderegg settings)
Detail Level and Crispening - what can I say, I like sharp. Both at +2 and I still added a hint of sharpness in post.

Andrew Smith · February 7th, 2015, 05:43 AM

Very nice, David. I really liked that one.

(Also a big fan of detail, else what is the point of high definition?)

Andrew

Christopher Young · February 7th, 2015, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dixon

Settings I used:

Looking good! How can a camera of this price produce these images. A few years back a lot of us would have killed for these sorts of images out of our multi-thousand $$$$ cameras. Keep up the good work DD:)

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Anthony Lelli · February 8th, 2015, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dixon

Detail Level and Crispening - what can I say, I like sharp. Both at +2 and I still added a hint of sharpness in post.

increased detail produce more pan and tilt blur. just like the EX1 . but on EX1 was less visible because the resolution was lower

David Dixon · February 8th, 2015, 12:38 PM

Wow - thanks for the kind words. My next subject is totally different - a nephew in a state swim meet - again, weird mixed lighting. Looking forward to trying the Clear Image zoom a bit but will probably use a monopod as well.

Meanwhile that "other" forum has now switched from saying the X70 can't get any detail in the images to saying that it doesn't even really shoot 10-bit 4:2:2 because someone can't see any difference between the 50mps XAVC and the AVCHD. Yep, supposedly Sony is lying and ripping us all off. Sheesh - I think I'll just go shoot.

January 22nd, 2015, 07:41 AM	#616
James R. Wilson Sr. Photographer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Allen, Texas Posts: 155	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 That sounds like a great interface. As we've said, hard to understand what Sony is thinking. A quick conversation with any of us out in the field would tell them that all of this was a bad idea. __________________ Jim

January 22nd, 2015, 07:51 AM	#617
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Being able to slightly increase/decrease things like gain makes sense for quality, but the old standard 3 position toggle is much better for fast paced things like ENG. Paul

January 29th, 2015, 07:56 AM	#618
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,528	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Don't know if anyone is interested but I picked up a couple of step up step down rings to try out on a Sony VCL-HG0872 zoom thru wide angle adapter that's been sitting on the shelf for some years. It caught my eye, much like the Fujinon adapter did and it got me thinking again... "I wonder if that will work on the x70?" The step up ring is a 62-77mm ring and the step down ring is a 77-72mm. The reason these two rings were required was to reach past the extended rear flange ring on the back of VCL-HG0872, see last pix. These two rings when mounted clear the diameter of the extended flange by about 1mm all round. I think this flange ring was designed to protect the rear element should the lens be placed back end end down onto a flat surface. The Sony VCL-HG0872 zoom thru wide angle adapter was originally released for the Sony Z1 HDV Hi-Def camcorder. It's a quality 4 element 3 group piece of glass. Was about $750 if memory serves me right. The Z1 camcorder had a 72mm screw in front thread with a recessed front element so the flange ring wasn't a problem. With the x70 though you can't use a single 62-72mm step up ring because it won't reach the threads on the back of the adapter. By using the two rings listed above the combo works very well indeed. First tests are showing minimal curvature and pretty even sharpness across the field of view. In fact I can see it being used quite often. The only 'con' I guess is its weight, 550 grams so it's no lightweight but with the left hand under it it's pretty comfortable to use. I've attached a few pix of how it all goes together. The second last pix has the lens backed of a couple of turns so that I could show the adapter model details. It actually has a four rotation engagement so very secure when mounted. Most filters have two full rotations of engagement. The last pix shows the extended flange ring that necessitates the two ring solution. There are also a couple of short MP4s, (2 x 15secs, 17MB) that can be downloaded from: www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/9pe65e The above clips originated as 1080i AVCHD and have been converted to 1280 x 720 25p for upload sake so not the best quality but they will give you an idea on the quite usable extra FOV gained by using a VCL-HG0872. Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney Attached Thumbnails

January 29th, 2015, 08:26 PM	#619
Tom Grushka Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 55	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Very nice, Chris. You and Paul have been so helpful in getting everything possible out of this cam. I ordered it Monday and have to wait until next Monday for its arrival due to the inclement weather in NY. :( Patience, Tom, patience! A few questions: Is the mic you're using similar in length to the Rode NTG-3 (25.5cm)? I want to mount that mic and hope it won't intrude into the shot. Even with the WC? And, I think I read somewhere that you found some rubber o-rings to make it fit the holder. (Or was that someone else?) Please forgive my asking again if you've answered it, but how are you holding your mic in there? Apparently I can buy the VCL-HG0872 used for around $100. But since it's a bit heavy, and requires all the adapters ... is there something lighter out there with similar image quality and budget (used of course)? Or, would you choose this particular one for the X70 even if you didn't have it already? Thanks.

January 30th, 2015, 01:39 AM	#620
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,528	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Hi Tom ~ The mic is a Panasonic AJ-MC700P which was the standard issue mic on the Panasonic DVC Pro 50 and P2 HD cams. They are actually manufactured by RAMSA which is Panasonic's Pro Audio division. I had three of them floating around from the days when all our kit was DVC Pro 50 so I thought I would check one out on the x70 and it performs beautifully. It should! They were a high spec mic and cost a fortune then which was years back. They are basically the same size, just a touch wider but a bit shorter than the Sony ECM-XM1 that comes on the FS700 and a number of other Sony cams. They are 5.5" long in the body and just over 0.75" in diameter. I had a number of the Sony neoprene mic sleeves lying around so used one of those and it's a pretty close fit so stayed with it. It fills the gap between the mic body and the inner rubber mount in the mic holder just about spot on. Physically it is much closer to the Rode NTG-1 in overall size. Nowhere near as long and directional as the NTG-3. No I didn't mention the 'O' rings but I see no reason why a solution based around those couldn't be worked out. My old favorite solution was to find a black mouse mat made of similar material to a wet suit and cut a square out of it to wrap around the mic body. That usually worked very well. The other trick was to criss cross a thin rubber band along the mic body before you put the windshield on. Do that and you will hardly ever have a windshield fall off and get lost or damaged. If you look further back through these posts you will see my post relating to the smaller lighter Fujinon WCV-82SC which is a .82 zoom through wide angle adapter. I also outlined the method I used to mount it. I find both adapters work well but that the Sony has got me being a tad wider at .80 and it has less distortion than the Fujinon. Not saying the Fujinon is bad not at all but I think I will be using the Sony more often than not in spite of its size and weight. In full zoom through adapters I don't know anything else that works. I think Paul was using one of these with step rings to good effect. Maybe he can chime in with his experience re that solution. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/652920-REG/16x9_Inc_169_HDWC8X_82_169_HDWC8X_82_EXII_0_8x_Wide.html There probably are other solutions out there but unless Sony comes up with a specific unit for the x70 I'll stick with these two for now. Pix of comparative lens sizes and the mics. You can see the neoprene sleeve on the Sony one. Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney Attached Thumbnails

January 30th, 2015, 01:59 AM	#621
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 For those looking for a good, short, pretty inexpensive (I paid about £100) and easily available on-board shotgun mic for the PXW-X70, the AT875R might be a very good choice too. I bought one a while back for my C100 as I found my Rode NTG-3 way too long/getting into frame on wider shots. Nice and hot, but not as directional as my NTG-3. Will give good clean sound - well as clean as any on-board mic is capable of giving in that very imperfect position... I've promoted using O rings to bulk out the width of mics in camera mic clamps at various stages on here a while back - can't claim to have invented the solution though! The mousemat type material idea is also something I've tried with good effect in the past too (in my case I cut up an old soft glasses cases/pouch). But if you really want the best suspension for any on-board mic, I'd always recommend the Rycote Invision Video suspension system. I took the Sony mic clamp off my EX3 (and again now off my PMW-300) to use this instead - but it might be a bit big and bulky on top of the rather small PXW-X70!!! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

January 30th, 2015, 11:01 AM	#622
Brian Murphy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Monreal, Quebec,Canada Posts: 249	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Is anyone on this thread shooting with a PMW300 and a PXW_X70? I am thinking of buying an X70 and a second for my 300 and wondered if anyone had any observations. Hockey playoffs in the spring usually bring my American network neighbours up ( if les Canadiens do well) as it did last year. The PMW 300 is a sensational camera for sports and scrums but it would be nice to have a second angle as a "value added" incentive for them. Lots of great material on this thread and it really helps to hear true hands on experience. Thanks Brian __________________ Brian Murphy Director-Editor-DoP Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto

February 3rd, 2015, 02:28 AM	#624
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Chris, I use an MC700 as well, with the same Sony rubber sleeve. I use the windscreen off of my MC900 though. The EXII and your Sony WA are best IMO, because they allow the little snout of the X70 to nestle into the sweet sharp center glass of the converter. My EXII is practically impossible to pick out in shots, even when at full telephoto at night. I am very happy with it,a nd the weight is really not a factor to me. The handgrip is so large and comfortable that you don't notice, especially if you have used slightly larger 3 chip cameras such as the HM600 type. Paul

February 6th, 2015, 10:01 AM	#625
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Found another PXW-X70 shooting test video on YouTube today. YouTube (Short URL) __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

February 7th, 2015, 02:05 AM	#626
David Dixon Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 495	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 A lot of users are aiming for a finished look in-camera, but I'm still experimenting with shooting flat and adjusting in post. Here's where I am so far on that. This has excerpts from a recent longer piece for a community art center with the X70 - you'll hear jumps in the music from the cuts. XAVC 1080p60, transcoded to ProRes 422 in Catalyst Browse and edited in FCPX. Exposure was manual: gain -3db, shutter 60, lens always wide open. Next time I’ll probably put Gain at 0 so I can shoot with shutter at 125. I used Paul Anderegg’s latest color correction settings for ITU709. They worked great. I used the scopes in FCPX to adjust exposure/curves and added saturation and a touch of sharpening. I wouldn't go so far as to call it grading, but I really enjoy the creative aspect of working with the image in post. Settings I used: Black Level at max: +15 Gamma (and Color Mode) ITU709 - I’m liking it better than Cinematone if going for flatter highlights Black Gamma also at max: High, +7 Knee: it’s difficult to get flat highlights on the camera. Really low Point and Slope at the same time give weird neon electric looks to anything in the frame that is above about 85 IRE. So I’m still experimenting with one low and one higher. Some of this was shot with Point at 92.5% and Slope at -5, some with Point at 80% and Slope at -1. I am still not totally satisfied with these and still testing. Saturation -2 Color Phase +1 (per Paul Anderegg settings) Detail Level and Crispening - what can I say, I like sharp. Both at +2 and I still added a hint of sharpness in post. Art Center excerpts on Vimeo

February 7th, 2015, 05:43 AM	#627
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,016	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Very nice, David. I really liked that one. (Also a big fan of detail, else what is the point of high definition?) Andrew

February 8th, 2015, 12:38 PM	#630
David Dixon Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 495	Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100 Wow - thanks for the kind words. My next subject is totally different - a nephew in a state swim meet - again, weird mixed lighting. Looking forward to trying the Clear Image zoom a bit but will probably use a monopod as well. Meanwhile that "other" forum has now switched from saying the X70 can't get any detail in the images to saying that it doesn't even really shoot 10-bit 4:2:2 because someone can't see any difference between the 50mps XAVC and the AVCHD. Yep, supposedly Sony is lying and ripping us all off. Sheesh - I think I'll just go shoot.