SONY PXW-Z150- 4K Recording & OutPut – What they are thinking?

[Paul Anderegg]

Just to be clear, there is a 720p and 360p streaming options, i am stuck with 360p streaming because I ALWAYS shoot 60p for broadcast (ABC).

Paul

[Antony Tsioukas]

I try to collect all functionality about 4K recording on Sony models (it's only for 4K recording mode not lower resolutions)

Correct me if I am wrong somewhere (I took these information's from user guides, any firmware update can change this functionality)

4K Recording + LCD Screen

• PXW-FS7: YES
• PXW-FS5: YES
• PXW-Z100 : YES
• PXW-Z150 : YES
• PXW-X70: YES

4K Recording + HDMI/SDI Output

• PXW-FS7: YES
• PXW-FS5: YES (firmware 1.1)
• PXW-Z100 : YES
• PXW-Z150 : YES
• PXW-X70: YES

4K Recording + HDMI/SDI Output + LCD Screen

• PXW-FS7: YES
• PXW-FS5: NO
• PXW-Z100 : YES
• PXW-Z150 : NO
• PXW-X70: NO (? on firmware 3.0 - Waiting for Verification)

HDMI + SDI Simultaneously Output

• PXW-FS7: YES
• PXW-FS5: NO
• PXW-Z100 : YES
• PXW-Z150 : NO
• PXW-X70: NO

Can I use external field monitor on 4K Recording?
[LIST][*]PXW-FS7: YES (SDI 1080p / HDMI 4K)[*]PXW-FS5: YES (firmware 1.1)[*]PXW-Z100 : YES (SDI 1080p / HDMI 4K)[*]PXW-Z150 : YES - LCD Swiched off (SDI 1080p or HDMI 4K)[*]PXW-X70: YES - LCD Swiched off (SDI 1080p or HDMI 4K)
Can I use external device for 4K Recording?

• PXW-FS7 : YES (HDMI Only)
• PXW-FS5 : YES (HDMI Only)
• PXW-Z100 : YES (HDMI Only)
• PXW-Z150 : YES (HDMI Only)
• PXW-X70 : YES (HDMI Only)

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg

I am pretty sure it is a HEAT production issue, that current economical hardware cannot deal with. If you look at the specs for most broadcast gear, you will see a several watt increase in power consumption for LCD and SDI outputs, it takes power to drive those, and power creates heat. Obviously, they could put a fan inside, but a fan blowing hard enough to cool off the economical video chips would be loud enough to cause complaints.

I would LOVE UHD at 60p, with a 20x zoom, but I REQUIRE MPEG-TS live streaming, which the Panasonics do not offer. I need 60p because I shoot for an ABC station, which means we broadcast 60p native.

Paul

Yes my FDR-AX1 has a fan as does the Z100. The FDR-AX1 eats 970 batteries too. They almost last 1 hour recording UHD 60P but in my NX5U will last over 4 hours so you can see the power difference. Due to both the processing and writing to XQD cards at 150Mbps. Fan noise is not really noticeable unless you are in an almost silent room then less than the fan in the BM Video Assist.

Ron Evans

[Dan Gunn]

Originally Posted by Antony Tsioukas

I try to collect all functionality about 4K recording on Sony models (it's only for 4K recording mode not lower resolutions)

Correct me if I am wrong somewhere (I took these inflammations from user guides, any firmware update can change this functionality)

4K Recording + LCD Screen

• PXW-FS7: YES
• PXW-FS5: YES
• PXW-Z100 : YES
• PXW-Z150 : YES
• PXW-X70: YES

4K Recording + HDMI/SDI Output

• PXW-FS7: YES
• PXW-FS5: NO
• PXW-Z100 : YES
• PXW-Z150 : YES
• PXW-X70: YES

4K Recording + HDMI/SDI Output + LCD Screen

• PXW-FS7: YES
• PXW-FS5: NO
• PXW-Z100 : YES
• PXW-Z150 : NO
• PXW-X70: NO

HDMI + SDI Simultaneously Output

• PXW-FS7: YES
• PXW-FS5: NO
• PXW-Z100 : YES
• PXW-Z150 : NO
• PXW-X70: NO

Can I use external field monitor on 4K Recording?

• PXW-FS7: YES (SDI 1080p / HDMI 4K)
• PXW-FS5: NO
• PXW-Z100 : YES (SDI 1080p / HDMI 4K)
• PXW-Z150 : YES - LCD Swiched off (SDI 1080p or HDMI 4K)
• PXW-X70: YES - LCD Swiched off (SDI 1080p or HDMI 4K)

Can I use external device for 4K Recording?

• PXW-FS7 : YES (HDMI Only)
• PXW-FS5 : YES (HDMI Only)
• PXW-Z100 : YES (HDMI Only)
• PXW-Z150 : YES (HDMI Only)
• PXW-X70 : YES (HDMI Only)

Anthony,
Correction: My X70 records in 4K, outputs SDI/HDMI and LED flip out works all at the same time.

Thanks for all the leg work.

[Antony Tsioukas]

Yes I see that on your other post but I wasn't sure, I took this information from the official operating manual. I didn't realize the v3.0 version so I look now again in the firmware here

https://www.sony.co.uk/pro/support/s..._150526_PSG/20
http://di.update.sony.net/HXR/t6x8HK...300_manual.pdf

and on page 24 it says for functions added with Ver. 3.00

- External output and face detection support when recording in XAVC QFHD (4K)

Nice, that’s impressive and I hope to do the same for Z150 model. It’s so pity for this camera to have this limitation.

[Dan Gunn]

Originally Posted by Dan Gunn

Anthony,
Correction: My X70 records in 4K, outputs SDI/HDMI and LED flip out works all at the same time.

Thanks for all the leg work.

CORRECTION!!!

The X70 DOES give up it's flip out LED screen when recording in 4K AND putting out a SDI/HDMI signal. Only data appears on the screen....no video.

I was going on what my partner told me from his experience. He was wrong. Shortly I will try it myself to see what it does when recording in HD.

Very sorry for the erroneous statement.

[Antony Tsioukas]

Originally Posted by Dan Gunn

CORRECTION!!!

The X70 DOES give up it's flip out LED screen when recording in 4K AND putting out a SDI/HDMI signal. Only data appears on the screen....no video.

I was going on what my partner told me from his experience. He was wrong. Shortly I will try it myself to see what it does when recording in HD.

Very sorry for the erroneous statement.

I test it by your self when you find some time. Data it's something because you can use an external monitor with no data on it and with the output of monitor to give it somewhere else.

Also test if you can lower resolutions. For example 4K recording and 1080p/720p output (if it doesn't have 3.0 firmware, install it to check if something changed)

[Antony Tsioukas]

I detect something interesting.

Z150 can stream with max 720p over network. But it can’t do that in 4K 100Mbps only in 4K 60Mbps.
So in this situation it uses the LCD Screen and Wifi OutPut, that means processor can produce 1 stream in 4K and 2 streams in 720p/360p (I suppose that the 720p stream is the same for LCD and WiFi-Streaming).

With these options I think that they can give in next firmware, 4K recording at 60Mbps, LCD and HDMI/SDI output at least in 720p. At least 720p is something from nothing.

But I don’t know about the limits of power consumption because HDMI needs 5V and I don’t know if the build of WiFi have the same power consumption.

[Paul Anderegg]

I've never streamed in 720p before.........I know my X70 and Z150 will not allow it in 60p or in 4K no matter what the bitrate. Really lame that I cannot stream 720p while in 720p record mode.....that makes no sense at all.

Paul

[Antony Tsioukas]

In the manual of z150 says

The streaming function is not available when using the following functions.
– During playback
– During thumbnail display
– In the following formats when the file format is AVCHD: 1080/60p, 1080/50p, 720/60p, 720/50p
– In the following formats when the file format is XAVC QFHD: 2160/30p 100Mbps, 2160/24p 100Mbps,2160/25p 100Mbps

Based on this I suppose that it can use XAVC QFHD: 60Mbps. Or this another mistake on user manual. Otherwise It doesn't have any sense to say that you can't stream in specific bitrate.

But that it makes me really “angry” about Sony is that. If a buyer see in a shop what it can do it will say:

- 4K Output : Yes
- Streaming function: Yes
- Control with Android/iOS : Yes
- FTP : Yes
- I don’t know what other minor functions: Yes

And the buyer it says OK, Sony offers more than other manufactures (like Panasonic with AG-DVX200 or I suppose the new AG-UX180)

But if you read the manual in deep (the most users doesn’t before buy something) you will find a lot of limitations... I MEAN A LOT!!! That’s why if you remember I ask you to send me the manual (that they delay a lot to upload it)

In Sony cameras you spend more time to find and remember on what you can’t do, than the use of camera.

From the first time that I informed about the new Sony Z150 I was excited, now I am close to disappointed.

This is unfair and I think that is a “marketing cheat”. In practice you just can’t use these features.

[Paul Anderegg]

Live streaming IS AVAILABLE in 4K 60Mbps mode, I just confirmed that on my Z150 before typing this........connected successfully to my stations Teradek server. X70 will also do live streaming in 60Mbps 4K mode.

Paul

[Antony Tsioukas]

Nice as they said that on manual, I hope to do that also for video out (at least 720p)

Thanks

[Paul Anderegg]

It will do 720p out of SDI while recording 60Mbps 4K........I shoot 4K live shots because it allows much better digital zoom operation.

Paul

[Antony Tsioukas]

Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg

It will do 720p out of SDI while recording 60Mbps 4K.

You mean with a firmware update or it supports now 4K recording at 60Mbps + LCD active + SDI/HDMI output at the same time?

Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg

I shoot 4K live shots because it allows much better digital zoom operation.

That's why I need 4K for my live streaming events, 720p it's enough for live streaming with available bandwidth speed, but on demand videos need resolution

[Gene Kois]

I found this thread interesting for reasons I'll explain. I've had the Z150 for about 6 months and I love it. I shoot both HD and 4K and have never run into this issue of the camera LCD screen turning off while shooting either format. Now here is where it gets interesting. I use the Lilliput 663 monitor via HDMI if I'm shooting for a client. I've shot dozens of times with that monitor in HD with no problem. Just yesterday ... for the first time ... I was shooting for a client in 4K using that monitor. Everything looked fine during the shot set-up but when I hit the Record button, the Lilliput monitor screen went black except for the time code display in the upper right. It freaked me out but I checked the thumbnails and the shot was there. So I apologized to the client and had them watch the camera LCD screen during the recording. So the 4K image passes thru the HDMI to the external monitor OK until you hit Record. Then it shuts off. Even more interesting is if I bring up the Thumbnails and select one, the playback will appear in both the Camera LCD and the Lilliput external. So it works during playback but not record.

The fact some people are experiencing the camera LCD shutting off and I'm seeing the external shut off makes me wonder if there is some menu setting we are setting differently. BTW ... I don't know if this even matters but I shut off that function where the LCD shuts off if your eye goes to the back viewfinder.