Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma) at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Most Recent Additions... > Sony 4K Ultra HD Handhelds

Sony 4K Ultra HD Handhelds
Pro and consumer versions including PXW-Z150, PXW-Z100, PXW-X70 / FDR-AX100


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 21st, 2017, 09:36 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 947
Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Well, it's out. Just started testing the HLG options yesterday. What do you think of the new expanded dynamic range recordings? HLG, HLG 1, 2 and 3.

Any thoughts?
Cliff Totten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2017, 08:49 PM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, Califonia
Posts: 1,248
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Is this a gimmick, or has Sony figured out a way to pull more actual dynamic range out of the little 1" sensor?

Paul
Paul Anderegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2017, 06:20 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 947
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

No gimmic. The RX10-III has the same sensor and they allowed it to have SLOG-2.

The problem with the Z150 is that Sony never allowed it to have any gamma curve more than rec709-ish type curves. Rec709 can only hold about 6 to 7 stops od dynamic range. So, doing this potentially allowes you to caputure the full range that the sensor actually sees instead of clipping it early the way rec709 does.

These little 1inch-type sensors can do 10+ stops of DR if you get it out of the rec709 limitations. I always thought it was ridiculas that the RX camera line using the exact same sensors were allowed to map the full range of their sensors but the x70 and the Z150 were left "crippled" to rec709.

I need to side by side test the RX10-III in SLOG-2 vs Z150 in HLG.
Cliff Totten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2017, 06:46 AM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,815
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

It all sounds interesting. I have been happy with the Z150 for what it is, but the dynamic range is one of the big weak points.

Is the new firmware worth it? Are there any bugs? Paul have you tried it?

And Paul, your PP has been fantastic for the last seven months pushing this camera hard. Thank you, and Trustee now is well deserved.
__________________
Paul Cronin
www.paulcroninstudios.com

Last edited by Paul Cronin; July 24th, 2017 at 11:19 AM.
Paul Cronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2017, 07:38 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Aberdeen Scotland
Posts: 545
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Will this also be passed on to the X70?
Donald McPherson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2017, 01:04 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 947
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cronin View Post
It all sounds interesting. I have been happy with the Z150 for what it is, but the dynamic range is one of the big weak points.

Is the new firmware worth it? Are there any bugs? Paul have you tried it?

And Paul, your PP has been fantastic for the last seven months pushing this camera hard. Thank you, and Trustee now is well deserved.
Is it worth it? You bet!...its FREE :-)

Not only will your dynamic range jump way up, they also added greatly improved zebra adjustments.

Highlight handling? HLG wipes those problems away. Remember, when you shoot it rec709, the camera cuts off the bottom and tops of the signal to give it the contrast (and limited dynamic range) that rec709 requires. So you are throwing away dynamic range that your sensor can easily see. Rec709 recording is a total waste of a good sensor.

I think this is a massive game changer for the Z150. Its not exactly SLOG-2 but its close enough!

I doubt they will give HLG to the X70. Sony would rather preasure you to "buy up" to get this ammount of dynamic range.

The sad thing is that the Sony RX10's with this same Z150 sensor give you SLOG-2! But our X70's get screwed.

Last edited by Cliff Totten; July 25th, 2017 at 08:30 AM.
Cliff Totten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2017, 07:58 AM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,815
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Thanks, just downloaded it and now getting ready to update.
__________________
Paul Cronin
www.paulcroninstudios.com
Paul Cronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2017, 10:52 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,815
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Anyone have the install directions. Seem to have lost mine and can't find it on the Sony site? Don't want to brick my Z150.
__________________
Paul Cronin
www.paulcroninstudios.com
Paul Cronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2017, 05:50 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 780
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Hi Paul.

I found this download link on the Aussie site for Sony. You have to download the entire zip package, but inside the package is the procedure manual for the firmware update (for both Mac and Windows):

Software: PXW-Z150 System software V2.00 : Software/Drivers : Australia : Sony Professional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cronin View Post
Don't want to brick my Z150.
I've read so many "horror stories" of firmware updates gone wrong that I tend to avoid them, but this update might be a rare case (from my viewpoint) where the reward might outweigh the risk.

I did my first project with the Z150 earlier this month and there was a particular outdoor scene where I felt I had pretty much a correct exposure for the overall scene plus the faces of the actors, but was dismayed during editing to notice some blown-out highlights on an actress's white top. So the extra dynamic range promised by this update has my complete attention!

I'm very interested in how you and others go with it. (Plus I'd also love Doug Jensen to chime in about this update, if he's not too busy at this time of year.)
David Knaggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2017, 05:52 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 947
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

My upgrade was easy, no issues and quick. I have upgraded many, MANY Sony cameras over the years and never had a problem.

Yes, the dynamic range is a fantastic improvement! Im going to do an RX10-III side by side test with the Z150 because they share the same sensor. It will be SLOG-2 vs. HLG-3. I'm curious to see the dynamic range difference.

If you look at Sony's published HLG-3 gamma curve mapping chart, you can see that it maintains a traditional rec709 value from the bottom to roughly middle grey. However, after grey it begins to compress as it makes its way to 100 IRE.

I wish Sony allowed HLG-3 to top out at 109 like they do with SLog-2. If you are stuck with 8 bits, you are better off using the full 8bit scale (0-255) instead of cutting the bits off and clipping the wave at 100. I dunno, maybe the HLG standard demands it?

Its got a beautiful slope to it so its going to handle highlights way, WAY better than rec709 ever could. You can shoot in HLG, capture allot more dynamic range, color grade in post and still deliver in traditional rec709 for your clients.

In 4k, we are still talking 8bit here so HLG will stress that CODEC more than rec709 but its very worth it to get that DR. Recording externally to ProRes will "help" the post grading 8bit artifacts quite a bit but will never completely cure true 8bit banding problems.

After you update, make sure you turn off your new LUT/monitor assist function. That way you can see the log in your monitor. When I first switched to HLG, I was like "hey, this looks no different than crappy cine1/2" took me a minute to realize that Sony's also gave us a LUT/monitor assist!

You guys will LOVE HLG on the Z150. This really makes this a whole new camera!!

Guys, this is really significant. This is the first Sony camera below $6000 to allow a log sensor readout.

NO OTHER SONY PROFESSIONAL CAMERA BELOW THE FS5 HAS THIS TODAY!!!

(I mean, with the exception of evey Alpha and CyberShot consumer camera that Sony has made in recent years:-)

CT

Last edited by Cliff Totten; July 26th, 2017 at 06:29 AM.
Cliff Totten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2017, 06:08 AM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,815
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Thanks David,

Your link worked, the one I tried for UK kept getting stuck.

Agree I have upgraded dozens of firmware, but only do it when I know it is worth it. And the Z150 really suffers from dynamic range so this will give it a little help.
__________________
Paul Cronin
www.paulcroninstudios.com
Paul Cronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2017, 07:03 AM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,815
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Easy update, camera does seem a bit better in dynamic range only doing a quick check. Thanks for the help.
__________________
Paul Cronin
www.paulcroninstudios.com
Paul Cronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2017, 09:06 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 363
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Quote:
I doubt they will give HLG to the X70. Sony would rather preasure you to "buy up" to get this ammount of dynamic range.
Message to Sony:
PLEASE DO MAKE THIS UPGRADE AVAILABLE FOR THE X70! THANK YOU!!

The X70 is a whole different camcorder than the Z150 with uses in a lot of places the X70 doesn't fit/work as well. It would open up a lot of doors (drones and adventure shooting) and show Sony is serious about making the Sony product line the best it an be.

Thank you!!
__________________
Mark Goodsell
Mark Goodsell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2017, 10:30 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Aberdeen Scotland
Posts: 545
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Ditto ^^^^^
Donald McPherson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2017, 12:01 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 947
Re: Sony Z150 - New firmware 2.0 with HLG. (Hybrid Log Gamma)

Agreed, I own both and it would be nice to have HLG-3 on the x70 too. This would make it easy to color match them together.

Sadly, i doubt they would allow it. The X70 is just not expensive enough to warrent it. Even though Sony makes 1inch type cameras under $1000 with SLog-2. I guess Sony allows consumer cameras to have things that XDCAMs arent.
Cliff Totten is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Most Recent Additions... > Sony 4K Ultra HD Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:52 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network