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-   -   Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70 (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-4k-ultra-hd-handhelds/534713-sony-pxw-z90-update-pxw-x70.html)

Paul Anderegg September 26th, 2017 01:26 AM

Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
Basically, it is the X70 with already installed 4K, and the updated sensor and related imaging upgrades from the PXW-Z150...also improved EVF resolution. List price currently $650 more than a 4K X70.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...hdr_xdcam.html

Paul Cronin September 26th, 2017 09:11 AM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
Thanks Paul,

Maybe the Z150 will be updated? Still hunting for 10bit 422 4K, internal. I know I could go back to the FS7 which I might, but still would like it in small form factor.

I am using your PP, with the new firmware on the Z150 with great results.

Craig Seeman September 27th, 2017 08:54 AM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
I've been using the X70 for a while and generally am very happy with it. I used the EX1 before that.
For me, the one achilles heal of the X70 has been the limited dynamic range. I hate having to let highlights clip so heavily on a sunny day. I hope the Z90 improves on that. It's autofocus intrigues me as I'd like to have something useful in some occasions (I never use auto focus as it's too unreliable IMHO).

Paul Cronin September 27th, 2017 09:00 AM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
I agree Craig, the lack of latitude is a major concern. And the Z150 has the same problem. I shoot on the water where I need a lot of latitude with my camera. The Z150 I get by most of the time, but cringe when I edit. Maybe this is because I know how well other cameras I have owned can handle it, but they are too big for most of my current shooting.

Often I search for a small form factor with great latitude camera. But I do not want to go SLR or GH5, I need a camera that I can nail the shots quickly because I normally get one chance. So if the PXW-Z90 improves on the Z150 by a few stops it is going in the right direction.

Cliff Totten September 28th, 2017 07:15 AM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
Well? They have added HLG to the Z150. So, no more harsh highlights anymore with that. The Z90 gets SLog and Im guessing the Z150 has no future log, even for its higher price tag over the new Z90.

But at least HLG wipes out any harsh highlights problems of the past.

Paul Cronin September 28th, 2017 07:19 AM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
I have been using the HLG on the Z150, and the highlights are a little better, but still minimum latitude.

Will be interesting on the Z90 how SLOG improves the latitude.

Zenes Petrusin October 1st, 2017 02:29 PM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
This video from PXW-Z90 looks same as from X70, I do not know if there is some image progress in profiles or SLOG do it something if CMOS not has much dynamic range


Cliff Totten October 1st, 2017 09:14 PM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
So it seems this generation of 1inch-type chip started in the RX10-III, moved into the RX100-IV then into the Z150. I'd say its about 3db to 6db cleaner over the X70 and AX100 which used the original, first generation 1 inch-type sensor. This latest sensor has a superb noise reduction processor.

So the RX100-V got phase detection AF circuit, then this moved into the RX10-IV and now its inside these three new cameras. I'd bet my very life that the Z150 sucessor is next in line. Its only logical based on the fact that all these new cameras share the same sensor and basic motherboard chipsets.

Yes, this new generation of 1 inch-type sensor is considerably cleaner than the "old" X70 sensor but I think dynamic range is still about 11 stops on all of them. However, you will never really see those 11 stops on the X70 because it only has rec709-ish profiles. You need S-Log to see the full latitude of these sensors. S-Log 2 maps the sensor's brightest white and darkest black to 109 and arround 0 IRE. No X70 profile does that...its not even close. You are basically stuck in a rec709 world with 6 or 7 stops mapped with normal contrast.

Yeah, these new cameras will have superior image quality over the X70. (The Z150 already does today with HLG)

Paul Anderegg October 1st, 2017 10:50 PM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
It also doesn't help that the X70 and Z90 are something like f4-f5.6@2000, with f2.8-f4.0....unless your shooting with the sun above the horizon, you will be adding gain...

Paul

Cliff Totten October 1st, 2017 11:49 PM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
The good thing is that you can jack up the gain on this generation if sensors like its nothing. +9db, even +12db is nothing for these guys. You can even do +15 and still get reletively clean video. Yes, the noise reduction increases but resolution is so high to start with that even after the noise reduction hit, you still get good 4k detail.

Im really impressed with my RX10-III and Z150 in high gain emergencies.

Paul Cronin October 2nd, 2017 07:47 AM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
Good discussion guys,

For me the Z150 with new firmware, I am not happy at +9db. But that is just my taste. Once it goes through Vimeo or YouTube it might not be a problem.

Two shoots outside coming up with Z150 and new firmware in 1080p. Since the upgrade I have only been shooting in 4K. So will be interested to see the 10 bit 422 in 1080 change.

Joachim Claus October 3rd, 2017 02:50 AM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten (Post 1936954)
Yes, this new generation of 1 inch-type sensor is considerably cleaner than the "old" X70 sensor but I think dynamic range is still about 11 stops on all of them. However, you will never really see those 11 stops on the X70 because it only has rec709-ish profiles. You need S-Log to see the full latitude of these sensors. S-Log 2 maps the sensor's brightest white and darkest black to 109 and arround 0 IRE. No X70 profile does that...its not even close. You are basically stuck in a rec709 world with 6 or 7 stops mapped with normal contrast.

Yeah, these new cameras will have superior image quality over the X70. (The Z150 already does today with HLG)

I use UHD/50p with my current video projects. Unfortunately, my camcorder (Panasonic AG-DVX200)records in 4:2:0, 8-bit. The 8-bit limit leads to unacceptable banding when I use the V-Log gamma. I do not think, that the Z150 records in 10-bit mode in UHD/50p, so it will have the same banding problems.
Joachim

Mark Watson December 4th, 2017 07:12 PM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
According to a video store in Tokyo, the camera release date is 18 December. I expect B&H would have them by the end of December.


https://info.system5.jp/whatsnew/

Paul Anderegg December 16th, 2017 12:02 AM

Re: Sony PXW-Z90, update to PXW-X70
 
I am going to pop in an order for my Z90 now...want to make sure I have as much warranty coverage as possible, since warranty status is based on purchase date not the date you receive the camera. Hoping that the December 18 date is a good one...probably working to ensure these cameras get out just in time for Christmas, not that they are your typical gift.

Paul


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