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Old October 13th, 2017, 05:09 PM   #1
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NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

Messing around some more with the good old ITU709 color mode on my DSC chart and vectorscope. I have some settings I would like to share, see if you guys like them better than the old PP's. Here are the color settings used and then vectorscope images of the raw chart at 100% saturation then with saturation boosted to 200% to mimic 2x vectorscope gain...it's a box thing. Bottom two pics are the STOCK ITU709 Matrix with no color corrections, and PP OFF settings for comparison. :-)

Black Level: 0
Gamma: ITU709
Black Gamma: off
Knee: Manual, 87.5%, -2
Color Mode: IYU709 Matrix
Saturation: 0
Color Phase: -2
Color Depth: R +2, G -3, B -1, C +1, M -1, Y-4
Color Correction: Revision 1&2
Mem1 Color: 10, 24, 0
Mem1 Revision: +6, -3
Mem2 Color: 19, 13, 31
Mem2 Revision: -15, +4
WB Shift: off for push to white/LB-CC [MG-GR] +1 for manual set WB
Detail, manual default settings

Please pop these in and tell me how you like them, and if you notice any oddities in color. Mem1 is adjustment for RED, Mem2 is adjustment for GREEN.
Attached Thumbnails
NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)-screen-shot-2017-10-13-2.53.08-pm.png   NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)-screen-shot-2017-10-13-2.53.27-pm.png  

NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)-screen-shot-2017-10-13-3.03.54-pm.png   NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)-screen-shot-2017-10-13-3.03.39-pm.png  

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Old October 13th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #2
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

Hey Paul,

It is great you post so many Picture Profiles. Just wanted to let you know I had to stop using your profile on my Z150. Colors were all over the place with different light outside lighting I shoot on the water. The blues were really hard to get right, red was OK, but at times off, and green was electric. So I have gone back to a PP from Doug's video.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 12:45 AM   #3
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

Which profile "other" Paul? I am always looking for feedback and specific issues...as I shoot 99.9% of my stuff at night at high gain, I seldom have the chance to sort daylight color inconsistencies.

My current task is to figure out what levels the COLOR DEPTH hues should be on a waveform monitor. I lost the little chart that came with my DSC Camalign, telling what IRE they should be shown at. Color depth specifically raises or lowers video level of a color on the waveform, not saturation, so makes the colors appear lighter or darker. These are really hard to mess with, because you can get extremely noticeable NOISE if you push these too far in either direction.

Paul
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Old October 14th, 2017, 10:49 AM   #4
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

HI Paul,

Same problem with both of the PP below.

I have finalized my "I don't think I can improve upon this any further" favorite "direct to air" custom picture profile. I have tested this in daylight, dawn, and night, and have not been able to identify any color oddities or levels issues. I have vetted this out fully in 4K mode, but these settings should work well in HD modes as well. So here they are..........and these are a massive imrpovement over my original REC709 settings.

BLACK LEVEL: 0
GAMMA: CINEMATONE 1
BLACK GAMMA: HIGH +7 DAY / LOW +7 NIGHT
KNEE: AUTO 90% HIGH SENSITIVITY
COLOR MODE CINEMATONE 1
SATURATION: 0
COLOR PHASE 0
COLOR DEPTHS: 0
COLOR CORRECTION: COLOR REVISION
MEMORY SELECTION: 1&2
MEMORY 1 COLOR
PHASE: 9
PHASE RANGE: 4
SATURATION: 0
MEMORY 1 REVISION
PHASE: +8
SATURATION: 0
MEMORY 2 COLOR
PHASE: 18
PHASE RANGE: 7
SATURATION: 0
MEMORY 2 REVISION
PHASE: -15
SATURATION: 0
WB SHIFT
FILTER TYPE: LB-CC
LB [COLOR TEMP]: 0
CC [MG/GR]: +1 (you can try this at 0, go +1 if anything looks a little green)
R GAIN: 0
B GAIN: 0
DETAIL
LEVEL: 0
MANUAL SET: OFF




So, below is my current working set, with an alternate for the color 2 correction. Please try these settings out and help me confirm they work well in daylight as well as mixed lighting. As they adjust/change the RED and YELLOW colors, that would be what you should point at to see issues. I am having the most issues with getting yellow firefighter jackets to look proper. Also, the orange used for Sony Pro boxes just looks odd, but getting that orange to look correct makes yellow look very off. Feel free to mess with the phase adjustments in each color, as you can see in real time how even a single number increment of change can become a very visible variation in the hue of a color!

Gamma: ITU709
Color mode: PRO
Color Phase: -1
Color Correction: Revision 1&2 1 = red, 2 = yellow
Mem 1 Color: 10, 4, 0 Mem 1 Revision: +8, 0
Mem 2 Color: 13, 9, 0 Mem 2 Revision: +8, 0 (alternate 15, 4, 0 / +4, 0)
WB Shift: LB-CC, MG/GR, +1 for Z150, +2 for X70 (this can be considered optional)

I find that in every PP I have calibrated, the red always looks correct at 10, 4, 0, +8, 0 with a -1 phase shift. Remember, on the color wheel, + means clockwise to the right, - means counterclockwise to the left, towards the next color over on the vectorscope.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 11:20 AM   #5
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

I had been using the PRO one for some time, but wanted to tae another crack at the ITU709 color matrix. :-)

Paul
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Old October 14th, 2017, 01:46 PM   #6
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

In "around my room" testing, I am noticing yellows are a tad too "lemon/lime" greenish, and red can push a bit pink when overexposed a bit. The problem is of course that you can only adjust 2 colors on these cameras...like picking which 2 fingers you would want to be able to curl, and the rest would never be able to move. Will work on this a bit more...trying to pull green down to it's vector seems to be tugging yellow too far in that direction.

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Old October 14th, 2017, 02:34 PM   #7
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

Here are my settings. No green pulsing in black/dark video when tested at 33dB video gain. Settings are for when you don't want to do any color correction in post.

Black Level: -2
Gamma: STANDARD
Black Gamma: On with RANGE at HIGH and LEVEL at -7
Knee: Auto with MAX POINT at 90.0% and SENSITIVITY at HIGH
Color Mode: STILL
Saturation: +3
Color Phase: +3
Color Depth: R 0, G 0, B 0, C 0, M 0, Y 0
Color Correction: REVISION 1&2
Mem1 Color: 30, 16, 0
Mem1 Revision:-9, +1
Mem2 Color: 5, 10, 0
Mem2 Revision: +3, +10
WB Shift: Auto WB & Manual WB - Filter Type LB-CC, LB [Color Temp] -1, CC [MG-GR] +1 and Push to Manual WB - Filter Type R-B, R Gain 0, B Gain 0
Detail is off, default settings

Last edited by Randy Wheeler; October 15th, 2017 at 12:30 AM.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 03:07 PM   #8
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

Have you played with STILL gamma mode? It acts almost like a strong KNEE bringing highlights down, mids stay at REC709, and blacks (pedestal) is dropped a bit, but not as in a black crush black gamma way. Looks pretty and very clean for some scenes. :)

Paul
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Old October 14th, 2017, 03:08 PM   #9
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

Thanks for the post guys.

For me Doug's settings are working fantastic. I am 2 or 3 ND's most of the time and with his settings I do not color correct, just brightness and contrast. Same thing when I used his PP's on F800, PMW-500, and F55, and FS7. So I think I will stick there for now.

Appreciate all the great input.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 03:09 PM   #10
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

Yes Paul,

Still is where I am now.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 03:28 PM   #11
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Re: NEW (AND IMPROVED) REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

OK, took another stab at this, starting from scratch, going more by what looks more off to the eye rather than what looks more off on the scope. So this set, I tried to stay with no master PHASE alterations, or COLOR DEPTH changes, and modified RED for Memory 1 and BLUE for Memory 2. I am more pleased with this thaN the settings in post one up above. The "around my room" test showed good results, so ignore or disregard the first post settings Here are the settings and 1x and 2x scope pics...DSC chart owners will note the hue of the blue patch is pleasingly violet...that is actually the color of the patch on the Camalign chart, go figure.

Black Level: 0
Gamma: ITU709
Black Gamma: off
Knee: Manual, 87.5%, -2
Color Mode: ITU709 Matrix
Saturation: 0
Color Phase: 0
Color Depth: R 0, G 0, B 0, C 0, M 0, Y-0
Color Correction: Revision 1&2
Mem1 Color: 10, 3, 0
Mem1 Revision: +4, 0
Mem2 Color: 31, 2, 0
Mem2 Revision: 0, -15
WB Shift: off for push to white/LB-CC [MG-GR] +1 for manual set WB
Detail, manual default settings

I would do more in depth, or will, a week from now, as I am on vacation from the field. :)
Attached Thumbnails
NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)-screen-shot-2017-10-14-1.02.01-pm.png   NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)-screen-shot-2017-10-14-1.02.18-pm.png  

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Old October 14th, 2017, 03:34 PM   #12
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

STILL Gamma mode crushes the black level too much unless you're not talking about the X70.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 04:25 PM   #13
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

From looking at the waveform when toggled back and forth from STILL GAMMA, it appeared the black level dipped almost or into superblacks, but mids stayed the same. It looked to my eye that the black levels were pulled won, and the highlights as well, with the mids staying the in the middle. My understanding of black crushing would be to compress the lower 1/3 of the video signal into itself, but STILL GAMMA just appeared to stretch it down past 0IRE. It may be a good alternative to black gamma crush and heavy KNEE settings, worth peeping a test clip.

Paul.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #14
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

Thanks. This is the BEST profile I have observed. Looks great indoors and outdoors. Nice!!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cronin View Post
HI Paul,

Same problem with both of the PP below.

I have finalized my "I don't think I can improve upon this any further" favorite "direct to air" custom picture profile. I have tested this in daylight, dawn, and night, and have not been able to identify any color oddities or levels issues. I have vetted this out fully in 4K mode, but these settings should work well in HD modes as well. So here they are..........and these are a massive imrpovement over my original REC709 settings.

BLACK LEVEL: 0
GAMMA: CINEMATONE 1
BLACK GAMMA: HIGH +7 DAY / LOW +7 NIGHT
KNEE: AUTO 90% HIGH SENSITIVITY
COLOR MODE CINEMATONE 1
SATURATION: 0
COLOR PHASE 0
COLOR DEPTHS: 0
COLOR CORRECTION: COLOR REVISION
MEMORY SELECTION: 1&2
MEMORY 1 COLOR
PHASE: 9
PHASE RANGE: 4
SATURATION: 0
MEMORY 1 REVISION
PHASE: +8
SATURATION: 0
MEMORY 2 COLOR
PHASE: 18
PHASE RANGE: 7
SATURATION: 0
MEMORY 2 REVISION
PHASE: -15
SATURATION: 0
WB SHIFT
FILTER TYPE: LB-CC
LB [COLOR TEMP]: 0
CC [MG/GR]: +1 (you can try this at 0, go +1 if anything looks a little green)
R GAIN: 0
B GAIN: 0
DETAIL
LEVEL: 0
MANUAL SET: OFF




So, below is my current working set, with an alternate for the color 2 correction. Please try these settings out and help me confirm they work well in daylight as well as mixed lighting. As they adjust/change the RED and YELLOW colors, that would be what you should point at to see issues. I am having the most issues with getting yellow firefighter jackets to look proper. Also, the orange used for Sony Pro boxes just looks odd, but getting that orange to look correct makes yellow look very off. Feel free to mess with the phase adjustments in each color, as you can see in real time how even a single number increment of change can become a very visible variation in the hue of a color!

Gamma: ITU709
Color mode: PRO
Color Phase: -1
Color Correction: Revision 1&2 1 = red, 2 = yellow
Mem 1 Color: 10, 4, 0 Mem 1 Revision: +8, 0
Mem 2 Color: 13, 9, 0 Mem 2 Revision: +8, 0 (alternate 15, 4, 0 / +4, 0)
WB Shift: LB-CC, MG/GR, +1 for Z150, +2 for X70 (this can be considered optional)

I find that in every PP I have calibrated, the red always looks correct at 10, 4, 0, +8, 0 with a -1 phase shift. Remember, on the color wheel, + means clockwise to the right, - means counterclockwise to the left, towards the next color over on the vectorscope.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 03:46 PM   #15
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Re: NEW REC709 Picture Profile (Oct 2017)

The newest one Lou?

Black Level: 0
Gamma: ITU709
Black Gamma: off
Knee: Manual, 87.5%, -2
Color Mode: ITU709 Matrix
Saturation: 0
Color Phase: 0
Color Depth: R 0, G 0, B 0, C 0, M 0, Y-0
Color Correction: Revision 1&2
Mem1 Color: 10, 3, 0
Mem1 Revision: +4, 0
Mem2 Color: 31, 2, 0
Mem2 Revision: 0, -15
WB Shift: off for push to white/LB-CC [MG-GR] +1 for manual set WB
Detail, manual default settings
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