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Old March 30th, 2018, 08:55 PM   #1
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Z90/NX80 - SLOG-2 Examples

Here is the first NX80 video of a couple that I'm making in my (rare) free time. I threw this together fast just for this test...so it's nothing I really could spend much time on. ;-)

This is an odd example of an SLog-2 capture that contains the entire dynamic range of this 1inch-type sensor. It include the brightest possible whites and the darkest possible blacks all in on image. Check it out out and tell me what y'all's thinks.


CT
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Old March 31st, 2018, 11:19 AM   #2
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Re: Z90/NX80 - SLOG-2 Examples

It would be helpful to have added text to the video explaining what was what (especially in the side-by-side). I know that the first part of the clip was the raw SLOG-2. That's quite nice; good shadow detail captured and the specular highlights as well in the chrome.

The second part of the clip is very dark. What was that mode? Or was that graded?

The side-by-side is I believe original SLOG-2 on the left and graded version on the right?
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Old March 31st, 2018, 11:44 AM   #3
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Re: Z90/NX80 - SLOG-2 Examples

If you take the time to listen to Cliff's narration he explains well enough what you are looking at. Unfortunately, I think the graded version still does not look good enough for prime time. That is the nature of S-LOG on the Z90. I still contend, from doing my own testing, that anything you can do with S-LOG you can do better with one of the other gammas and some custom profile changes -- especially if you agree that maximum dynamic range is not the most important thing when judging overall image quality.
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Old March 31st, 2018, 12:03 PM   #4
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Re: Z90/NX80 - SLOG-2 Examples

Oops, I watched the video only without sound on. Will re-watch/listen later.
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Old March 31st, 2018, 02:28 PM   #5
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Re: Z90/NX80 - SLOG-2 Examples

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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
If you take the time to listen to Cliff's narration he explains well enough what you are looking at. Unfortunately, I think the graded version still does not look good enough for prime time. That is the nature of S-LOG on the Z90. I still contend, from doing my own testing, that anything you can do with S-LOG you can do better with one of the other gammas and some custom profile changes -- especially if you agree that maximum dynamic range is not the most important thing when judging overall image quality.
I agree with you Doug, the the vast majority of stuff I would shoot would be with Cine profiles. Most of the time with this camera and my X70 and Z150, I'm shooting hours and hours of corporate lectures, training materials and live corporate and govt event streaming. (This is a part time job for me. I work full time for a large global media company as an IT/AV executive events guy) Anyway,...this kind of stuff is no place for anything other than a good WYSIWYG workflow. No argument, this is the type of "normal" use of cameras like this.

An exception to this would be if I was shooting a local rock concert. I would choose the FS7 or A7S-II or even my GH5 over these great 1inch-type cameras. But, if my house burned down and all I was left with was my NX80, than yeah, I'd shoot that rock concert in SLog-2 with it.

With blasting flashing lights on faces and TONS of rapid changing over exposure potential...sure, I'd have no worries about using SLog-2 and dealing with the noise floor in post. You can expose SLog to protect your highlights or the other way and use it to capture deeper shadows instead. Yes, it will take me longer to edit but for that stuff, I'd say the extra couple of stops to deal with in post would be worth the trouble.

So ultimately, I do agree with Doug for most NX80/Z90 Cine profile common uses. Doug's profile suggestions ARE really nice. But in my humble opinion, if you "really" need 100% of what this camera has (because that is all you have to work with) than go for it and use SLog-2 and work out your look in post. I believe there is benefit to be had there if you want to do the labor.

This same "labor" applies to ALL SLog or VLog camera work flows as opposed to WYSIWYG profiles. That extra DR requires work on any Log camera.

CT

Last edited by Cliff Totten; March 31st, 2018 at 03:04 PM.
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Old March 31st, 2018, 03:22 PM   #6
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Re: Z90/NX80 - SLOG-2 Examples

Quote:
Most of the time with this camera and my X70 and Z150, I'm shooting hours and hours of corporate lectures, training materials and live corporate and govt event streaming. (This is a part time job for me. I work full time for a large global media company as an IT/AV executive events guy)
Do you have any other nx80 footage available online beside cartires that showcase how the nx80 performs when slog is used? I find it difficult to judge this camera's perfomance based on the type of footage that is shown.
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Old March 31st, 2018, 03:44 PM   #7
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Re: Z90/NX80 - SLOG-2 Examples

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Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
IThis same "labor" applies to ALL SLog or VLog camera work flows as opposed to WYSIWYG profiles. That extra DR requires work on any Log camera.
CT
I agree that there is always extra labor involved in post for S-LOG, that is the cost of entry into that realm of production. But with cameras like my F55, FS7, and FS5 that extra effort pays dividends in terms of a superior finished product vs. shooting with a normal REC709 profile. In fact, on my F55 and FS7 I never shoot anything but S-LOG or RAW, and I also invest the time to grade properly in Resolve. But I cannot say that applying that extra labor for the Z90 is worth it. In fact, just the opposite, it is my opinion that shooting with S-LOG actually results in an inferior final image to what I could have gotten onboard the camera -- with no extra labor at all. I will stand by that belief until someone shows me something that convinces me otherwise. BTW, I know that was not the intent of this video.
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Old March 31st, 2018, 04:47 PM   #8
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Re: Z90/NX80 - SLOG-2 Examples

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
Do you have any other nx80 footage available online beside cartires that showcase how the nx80 performs when slog is used? I find it difficult to judge this camera's performance based on the type of footage that is shown.
Yup,...I shot about 20 minutes of boats at a Ft Lauderdale marina. There weren't allot of shadows in any of those shots. I had to laugh because as I walked out, I saw that truck and I said said "Oh cool,..there is a dark shadow!" When I looked at my zebras and histogram, I realized that dumb tire well had very deep blacks combined with bright sunlit metal. So I shot that for 30 seconds and went home.

That dumb little scene was enough to fill the 0-109 scopes perfectly. (blacks bottomed out at around 5 or 8 IRE) But yeah, that's everything that sensor can possibly see.

I gotta make more time to display the "normal" stuff I shot in SLog-2. I just posted it as a rock-bottom noise floor to maxed-out white test. (Super whites were just barely pulled in under 109 clipping, so it's all in there unclipped)

I will soon. My main thing this week is studying for my FAA part 109 commercial sUAS pilot licence. (Commercial Drone)

I respect Doug's opinion on this. I'll post some more to investigate SLog's ability on the little guy. (Actually. its not SLog's ability, it's the "sensor's" ability. SLog-2 just maps any sensor's 100% total output from 0-109. SLog-3 is very different and dumps every sensor's output into a fixed 16 stop curve even if that sensor can't output 16 stops.)

I guess that the big question is, if you wanted to take SLog-2 and grade it exactly into a Cine1/2 output in post, the way the camera does internally, could it be done properly and have it look the same? I guess a good blind A/B test between native Cine1/2 vs SLog-2 graded into Cine1/2 and having us try to identify which one was the "native" and one was the SLog-2 graded into Cine1/2? Maybe this would answer the question for some of us? It's my opinion that SLog-2 can be graded into any rec709 look that you chose in post after the fact. You can conform it to mimic any rec709 look that the camera can do inside.You can grade it to a Cine1 look on Monday and on Tuesday, move it to Cine2 and on Wednesday rec709 800%...or on Thursday go a completely different direction.

CT

Last edited by Cliff Totten; March 31st, 2018 at 09:17 PM.
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