Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB at DVinfo.net

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Old April 9th, 2018, 04:00 PM   #1
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Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

Sony showing off their replacements for the PXW-X180 and X200 cameras. The Z280 has 3 1/2" CMOS sensors, is f12@2000 59.94Hz, with 63 db s/n ratio. It also does 4K 60p in 10bit 4:2:2 with HLG HDR.

PXW-Z190 not as well equipped, but will be priced under $4000USD and better than the X180 it replaces.

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/hand...able3-pxw-z190

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/hand...5Look-pxw-z280
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Old April 10th, 2018, 12:29 AM   #2
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

Saw both Z cams
The 190 is nice,balanced well,easy to handheld.
A solid camera,bout the size of ex1r.
4000.00 good price,out in fall
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Old April 10th, 2018, 12:59 AM   #3
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

Z280 is great... except the lens is the exact same as the PMW-200 and PXW-X200 before it. If you had to deal with CA before on those cameras, expect to deal with that again on this camera. Really wishing they made a PMW-300 successor with this backend so that Canon and Fujinon can start making 4K optics for 1/2''.
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Old April 10th, 2018, 01:48 AM   #4
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

The availability of 1/2" ENG lenses tanked...there are currently like only 2 lenses with extenders that are not "industrial" or "pro" lenses.

Also of note for the Z190, the MPEG HD420/422 Codec group is now a $500 paid upgrade. The MPEG-TS/QoS live streaming is also a separate $500 paid upgrade on top of that. The next new Sony camera will offer zebras and audio meters as a $500 paid upgrade no doubt. :-)

Paul

Last edited by Paul Anderegg; April 10th, 2018 at 02:36 AM.
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Old April 10th, 2018, 04:07 AM   #5
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

Well, looks like time for some custom CNC shop to look into modding the Z280 into a PMW-300. Some people out there would love that, especially those that currently own 1/2'' lenses.
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Old April 10th, 2018, 04:45 AM   #6
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

Just wait for the PXWZ320...I never understood the fascination with the PMW300...it's not a handheld, and it's not a shoulder camera. Once you start tacking on a large ENG lens and Gold Mount with handle, you've created an overweight cumbersome monstrosity. I would like to see stabilization on B4 and 1/2" ENG lenses, that would be cool.

If I don't have a shoulder camera for tripod, and a handheld with ACTIVE stabilization, I feel unprepared for my job in ENG.

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Old April 10th, 2018, 01:29 PM   #7
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

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Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg View Post
Just wait for the PXWZ320...I never understood the fascination with the PMW300...it's not a handheld, and it's not a shoulder camera. Once you start tacking on a large ENG lens and Gold Mount with handle, you've created an overweight cumbersome monstrosity. I would like to see stabilization on B4 and 1/2" ENG lenses, that would be cool.
Yup I'd love to see something like that come out. Although there aren't many (or any) 1/2" UHD rated B4 lenses out there at all. Chicken before the egg, but they have to talk behind the scenes and have all of these land at the same time to offer a complete system out of the gate.

Also Fujinon offers external optical shift B4 stabilizers, but they sure look to be quite cumbersome. I'm not sure how they would implement a sensor-based (in body) stabilization system with a triple-chip/prism arrangement, so this would likely involve integrating some electronic servo-driven components, into lenses where users have traditionally valued their direct mechanical connection by design. (Similar to the kit lenses where they were able to implement autofocus, but then you get the infinite encoder ring and associated lag.)
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 04:56 AM   #8
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

I re-reviewed the low light footage of the Z280 and found some noticeable color noise in the blacks. This might be a camera you would not want to push the gain, but it can get really good results in proper lighting, exceeding the resolution of single chip cameras. However, this will perform poorly in low light.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 05:11 AM   #9
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

What footage are you examining? Camera claims f12@2000 and 63db s/n ratio...that is far above what the PXW-X200 can do, so perhaps you are reviewing slog or such 4K clips? I've got a PXW-X320 that is super clean at 12db, nice and smooth, and it's like f11 and 60db s/n.

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Old May 2nd, 2018, 06:20 AM   #10
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

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However, this will perform poorly in low light.
Having spent several hours with the cameras already, I can assure you that you are completely wrong. The cameras actually do very well in low light when they are setup properly, and the f/1.6 and f/1.9 lenses of the Z190 and Z280 are a big help. Making such statements about cameras you have probably never touched is premature. When you get your hands on one for testing, then maybe your opinions will have some validity, but until then, you are just throwing mud.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 06:59 AM   #11
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

Doug, how is the Z190 compared to the Z280 in low light? Looks like they closed the gap a bit on the 1/3" and 1/2" as far as sensitivity and s/n ratio.

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Old May 2nd, 2018, 02:38 PM   #12
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

For the sake of clarity (because I had to look it up for myself):

The Z280 has half-inch chips and an f/1.9 lens.

The Z190 has third-inch chips and an f/1.6 lens.
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Old May 2nd, 2018, 05:06 PM   #13
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

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Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg View Post
Doug, how is the Z190 compared to the Z280 in low light? Looks like they closed the gap a bit on the 1/3" and 1/2" as far as sensitivity and s/n ratio.
Paul
Paul, although I found both cameras to be much better at low light than I expected (very low noise even with a lot of gain applied) I didn't have the opportunity to actually compare them head-to-head in a meaningful way. So It remains to be seen which one will be better at low-light, but I would be wary of just automatically assuming it would the camera with the bigger sensors.
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Old May 4th, 2018, 11:05 AM   #14
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

I'm fascinated by Sony's ability to mount three RGB sensors to an optical block with 4k accuracy! I mean, they need to mount those sensors so that each RGB photosite is directly on top of each other when combined in the image processor. So the block/prism alignment and calibration is crucial.

Doing this in 1080 is hard enough. Doing it in 4k requires 4 times more accuracy!

This is quite a stunt. I'm also wondering how these cameras will survive bumps and knocks while maintaining their alignment accuracy. If one sensor moves even a tiny bit, it could potentially throw off the RGB image assembly badly. Im guessing Sony prepared for that problem somehow.

Very interesting...,

Last edited by Cliff Totten; May 4th, 2018 at 11:56 AM.
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Old May 7th, 2018, 08:37 PM   #15
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Re: Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

Y'know,...when I was at the Sony booth, I looked at these cameras and went: "Meh,....nothing to see here"....

Now I just sold my Sony Z150 last week and I'm looking to replace it in a few months. Now,...I'm kicking myself for not paying more attention to them!!!

On second thought, they both look more interesting than I first realized. I'm very curious how three 1/3 inch 8.3 megapixel sensors will compare to the 1inch-type 20mp sensors that we know so well today.

Having three full raster 4k sensors gives FULL 4k (UHD) resolution to each RGB channel as opposed to having 25% blue, 25% red and 50% green channel resolution. (for a typical 1:1 Bayer sensor readout)

I did some stupidly-crude math in my head and I "think" the photosites are larger on the Z190 1/3 sensors than a very dense 1 inch 20mp sensor. I suspect that this camera should at least be equal to the 1inch-type models if not a bit better. Could we expect 12+ stops of DR? I dunno yet....maybe?

I know the Z280 lens pretty well as it's been said to come from the EX1 but the Z190 is a mystery to me. 26mm to over 700mm range? (35mm terms) DAMN! That's like some seriously LONG extended optical reach!!.

Waiting for Doug to get his hands on one and share his experience with it. I might grab that Z180 if it looks as good in real life as it does on paper. (Really screwed up by not playing with it when I had the chance while standing right in front of them...uuggg)

CT
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