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Old June 11th, 2019, 01:52 PM   #1
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Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

My Z150 has a setting to turn ON the audio limiter which I always leave ON.

I don't see that setting on my "try-the-Z90-as-a-replacement-for-a-Z150" test unit.

Each week I video a yoga class that is mostly quiet until the instructor stands 12"-18" from two gongs and plays them. Often Loudly!

On the Z150 and the Limiter turned ON, it handles the dynamic range just fine -no noticeable engagement of the limiter and the loudness is kept below the clipping limit. On the Z150 if the limiter is OFF, the audio is completely unusable -10 minutes of distorted, clipped audio.

Yes, I keep the audio control on "Manual" and I ride the volume throughout the class, but it is not possible to be 100% perfect without the Limiter turned On.

I've rented Doug Jensen's tutorial series on the Z90, but no mention of a Limiter in the "Audio" tutorial.

So, on the Z90, where is the setting for the audio Limiter? Or maybe it is built in and always turned ON?
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Old June 11th, 2019, 03:40 PM   #2
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Hi Hari,
First of all, thanks for renting the Z90 video. I appreciate the support.

The Z90 does have a limiter but it is always turned on and you cannot turn it off or adjust its settings, therefore, there is no menu setting or switch for the limiter. I probably should have mentioned that in my tutorial. Sorry.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 03:56 PM   #3
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Thanks Doug for the quick answer. The audio limiter on the Z150 (and my previous Z5) work very well for my situations. For example, Saturday night I was recording a Taiko drumming concert where an excellent limiter is a requirement.

I'll do some side-by-side testing with the Z90, Z150 and a couple of gongs... I really want to like the Z90 as a Z150 replacement.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 04:40 PM   #4
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

BTW, I also answered your email but it bounced back flagged as spam.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 12:15 AM   #5
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Did I read somewhere a trick to use two mics recording at different levels?
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Old June 12th, 2019, 05:40 AM   #6
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Donald. I'm not sure what you are asking. The camera has many possible sources of audio input, including two XLR jacks, with independent manual recording level control for both audio channels. There's no special trick to recording two microphones at different levels. It's just normal audio setup like every other pro camera.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 06:49 AM   #7
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Nam Singh View Post
So, on the Z90, where is the setting for the audio Limiter? Or maybe it is built in and always turned ON?
As the resident DJ says the Z90's 'limiter' AGC is always on. What I have found is that the Z90 comes with its 'attenuation' switches behind he clear audio cover, above the audio gain dials, set to -10dB as the default position whereas the X70 came with its attenuation switches set to 0dB for the its default. Not long ago I had to film some Lebanese musicians who had in their group a number of drummers with those massive big drums that are incredibly loud especially when close to them. On the Z90 I just set those two attenuation switches to -20dB and had no issues at all with audio overload. If the situation goes from very quiet to very loud rapidly I will set one channel to 0dB and the other at -20dB and between the two channels I then generally have a fair range of levels to choose from in the edit. Should add I use a short shotgun into Ch #1 and have the REC CH SELECT switch set down to Ch#1 so it feeds both inputs 1 & 2. Normally I leave the ATT switches at the Z90's default of -10dB.

Chris Young
Sydney
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Old June 12th, 2019, 09:56 AM   #8
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

How do the Audio Set menu: "Audio Rec Level (normal,high)" options relate to OP's question? The manual says nothing about these options.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 11:03 AM   #9
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

The real answer to your question is that it shouldn't matter because that menu only affects the recording levels of the internal mic and cheapo consumer mics connected to the 3.5mm jack. Anyone who cares about audio should be using the XLR jacks or some other device connected the MI-Shoe. So, therefore, that menu can just be ignored and whatever differences there are between the settings don't matter.

@ Chris
Good tips!
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Old June 12th, 2019, 11:39 AM   #10
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Doug, I was thinking of this Tascam DR-40 on Youtube starting at 10:10 with dual recording.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 03:28 PM   #11
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

I'm still not sure exactly what you are getting at, but it is possible to record a microphone coming in on XLR 1 onto both channels 1 and 2 at two different recording levels. If that's what you wondering about, yes, it is possible and easy to do.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 01:40 PM   #12
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

[QUOTE=Christopher Young;1951094]As the resident DJ says the Z90's 'limiter' AGC is always on.

Chris Young
Sydney[/QUOTE


I just purchased this camera. It arrived yesterday and once I open the box no returns without a charge. Reading “limiter” AGC reminds of cameras I’ve had in the past where AGC was to be avoided at all costs. unless you “wanted” your levels to pump when things got quiet. I’m assuming the Z90 is different in that it’ll prevent an overload but not boost the gain by itself, is that correct? Or perhaps saying it has AGC is inaccurate?

Doug, I bought your class on this camera Haven’t gone through it all yet but it did help me in making my purchase decision. When I came across this post I skipped ahead to the audio section and didn’t hear you say anything untoward about its audio. My gut says there’s nothing to worry about, but before opening that box I’d like to hear what you, Chris or others have to say about my concerns.

Thanks
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Old June 13th, 2019, 04:10 PM   #13
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Jase, thanks for your support on my video series. Have I tested the Z90's audio in every possible shooting configuration and situation? No, I have not. But in all my use of the camera I have not come across any problems or issues to warn you about that would prevent me from using the camera for anything that required high-quality audio capture. Sony knows how to do audio. Unlike some camera manufactures who have no audio products, it's one of Sony's strengths.
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Old June 13th, 2019, 08:33 PM   #14
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase Tanner View Post
Reading “limiter” AGC reminds of cameras I’ve had in the past where AGC was to be avoided at all costs. unless you “wanted” your levels to pump when things got quiet. I’m assuming the Z90 is different in that it’ll prevent an overload but not boost the gain by itself, is that correct? Or perhaps saying it has AGC is inaccurate?
In my experience it's been many years, SP Beta days, since the higher level Sony camera AGC's have hunted for sounds, ie starting to raise gain and then suddenly collapsing again when sound is detected. Well not to any noticeable degree anyway. Using the auto record levels often on the Z90 I have never heard any evidence of 'pumping' being an issue. I would call Sony's Z90 auto record levels an AGC. An AGC with three attenuation levels you can work with. Never had an issue with it. Seems to work in exactly the same way as it does on my XDCam disc camera and it's never been an issue on that camera.

Chris Young
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Old June 14th, 2019, 09:19 AM   #15
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Re: Z90 Audio Limiter -Setting is Where?

Thanks to you both, Doug and Chris, for your replies. I do believe that box will be opened tomorrow.

Doug, I also purchased your stock footage class. Haven't had any opportunity to delve into that yet, but looking forward to doing so once things slow down come mid August. Happy to support you, well worth the time and money.

Jase
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