A7s or GH4 - which for you?

[Chris Harding]

The odd item I have bought from India has been marked as camera parts and devalued to a crazy level! I think my stedicam which cost $1270 came in with a value of $34.00!

We are slightly different here. We don't pay any duty on cameras that come in as imports BUT if they are over $1000 then we have to pay 10% General Sales Tax, not only on the item but the shipping costs too.

I have bought two sets of Panasonic cameras from Global Media Pro based in New Zealand and they are very strict with prices and won't de-value them even by one cent so I paid the GST on every item I bought from them. The Hong Kong dealers seem to enjoy trying to buck the system. With warranty yes, their advertised warranty is genuine BUT you have to ship the item back to the dealer in HK who then send it to Japan for repair or replacement ...fair enough it only costs you shipping but you would probably be without a camera for quite a few months which, for our business is an issue!

The way I see it with imports they are actually all "grey goods" my Pannys were made in Japan and had 100% genuine serial numbers and I could register them but all repair centres here will not touch them as they were not shipped from Australia. I think the only difference is a jacked up price which helps cover the local repair centres cover warranty costs and cover local support. With my latest Sony's the camera serials are Australian and that gives me local warranty and support. I would say that's where the price difference comes in.

I wonder what the manufacture plate says on the A7S cameras ..My Nikons I bought were made in Japan and some Nikon lenses also are made in Japan but the kit lenses (which I sold off) came from China and Thailand ???

However it still seems that VAT is a big rip off! People who are using cameras for fun at home should have to pay VAT but professional videographers should really be tax exempt!!

Chris

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

It shoots 8bit 4:2:2 at 100mbps (not that I'm certain what 4:2:2 means! Ha!), which had everyone raving upon its release. Also, you can shoot 10 bit with the adaptor if the user is crazy about getting the most out of the image in post.

I understood the 100mb/s mode to be 4:2:0 internally and 4:2:2 externally. Is this incorrect?

Also, has anyone found evidence that it's true 10 bit 4:2:2 externally (HDMI) rather than an 8 bit 4:2:0 in a 10 bit 4:2:2 wrapper like so many other cameras do? I'm hoping it's a true 10 bit 4:2:2 since that's what they are using to get things to the SDI ports on the expansion unit.

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Peter Rush

However it still seems that VAT is a big rip off! People who are using cameras for fun at home should have to pay VAT but professional videographers should really be tax exempt!!

As a professional you cannot be tax exempt but if you have a turnover greater than £81K they must be registered for VAT & will be able to reclaim any VAT they pay not just on cameras but on anything purchased by way of the business. This is fine for commercial work & you may opt to register even if your turnover is below the tax threshold, The downside if your customers are all consumers e.g. you are a wedding videographer is that you must charge them VAT on your services thus raising prices compared to your competitors who are not VAT registered.

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

I understood the 100mb/s mode to be 4:2:0 internally and 4:2:2 externally. Is this incorrect?

Also, has anyone found evidence that it's true 10 bit 4:2:2 externally (HDMI) rather than an 8 bit 4:2:0 in a 10 bit 4:2:2 wrapper like so many other cameras do? I'm hoping it's a true 10 bit 4:2:2 since that's what they are using to get things to the SDI ports on the expansion unit.

My apologies.

It's 4:2:0 to SD card in 8 bit.
And 4:2:2 to external recorder via mini HDMI in 8 or 10 bit.

And it's 'real time' 10 bit 4:2:2 externally... I'm sure Philip Bloom said 'true 10 bit' in his review, but I can't recall exactly. Again, I'm new to codec stuff... I need to learn more about it.

Originally Posted by Edward Calabig

Ah yeah I totally understand. I guess I was approaching the situation as someone who was not vested in any system and they were purchasing to cover any and all situations.

Again I don't think the GH4 or A7s cover most of the situations during weddings. Then again the C100 does not: it is larger and does not have slow motion.

When it boils down to the GH4 vs A7s it all depends on the shooter and their needs. Do you favor a razor sharp 4k image in an ergonomic camera or a filmic 1080p look with terrible ergonomics? I favor the look the A7s over the GH4 much more aside from the crop-ability but it can be so clunky to work with.

Ah that makes a lot of sense, Edward. I'm with you: if I owned a C100, I wouldn't be considering either the A7S or the GH4. I would however, be mightily interested in the update of the C100 and be hoping that it's 4K.

Fair comment about the C100 though, I would be interested in shooting slow motion... so in that regard, which slow motion camera would you choose?

What about using a grading tool such as Film Convert? Would you still get unacceptable graded images with the GH4? I need to research this more...

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

Fair comment about the C100 though, I would be interested in shooting slow motion... so in that regard, which slow motion camera would you choose?

I'm gonna through a curve ball in here..... I DO have a C100, it's my go to camera. I hate the crappy look from Canon DSLRs now - yet I'm still considering the GH4 for 4K mode and for doing 1080p slow-mo......that and it's light enough to get up in to the air on a multirotor.

[Craig McKenna]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

I'm gonna through a curve ball in here..... I DO have a C100, it's my go to camera. I hate the crappy look from Canon DSLRs now - yet I'm still considering the GH4 for 4K mode and for doing 1080p slow-mo......that and it's light enough to get up in to the air on a multirotor.

Hmmm I think they're amazing for drone stuff... I love the GH line up, don't get me wrong... I just think that if I'd spent as much as I have on the M4/3 line up on the Canon line up for wedding videos, I think I'd be a happier person right about now with a C100.

That said, the weight and size advantage is fantastic... and I love the M4/3 lens line up - especially the 75 f1.8 and the 25 f1.4 - heck, even the 12 f2 - and I have yet to get the 42.5mm f1.2.

I know slow mo is supposed to be soft at 96fps and I also know that I know little about grading - other than what I've learned from Rob Adams and Ray Roman (on their courses via CL, which I've watched loads), but the GH3 and 4 yield IQ that has had people ask me, "Wow, what do you shoot with?" including wedding videographers who are kitted out with 5Ds - not to say that they were more impressed with the HD quality from my GH3, but that it is more than adequate.

Can't wait to shoot more weddings though... when looking at my last film, I missed a couple of hours here and there because I was a groomsmen, whereas at my next two weddings I'm just the videographer... going to have a lot more time to be creative and get more footage.

Anyways... back to the thread topic...

[Edward Calabig]

Yep I've graded GH4 footage with Film Convert and Impulz and the result was okay. It doesn't hold up well under less than ideal low light situations (1600 or higher) if you plan on grading it. Then again, I was shooting with Cinelike-d presets using a few custom picture profiles (forgot which ones). If I had kept the camera, I would be testing alternatives to Cinelike-d for grading, much like S-log 2 on the A7s is not all it's hyped up to be.

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

Hmmm I think they're amazing for drone stuff... I love the GH line up, don't get me wrong... I just think that if I'd spent as much as I have on the M4/3 line up on the Canon line up for wedding videos, I think I'd be a happier person right about now with a C100.

Agreed I love the C100.

I'm currently selling one of my 5D3 bodies (< 1650 clicks) if any one is interested. It works perfectly but I rarely use it since it no longer suits my needs. I'm going to keep the other one for photos only.

[Peter Rush]

Some more stuff on the A7s from Philip Bloom

The evolving review of the Sony A7s now with extreme low light video. | Philip Bloom

Interesting to note that Philip got his from Digitalrev.com - a company that imports from Hong Kong!!!!!

[Clive McLaughlin]

Peter, why is that noteworthy? Buying from DigitalRev isn't illegal or anything.

Phillip, like myself simply wanted to get his hands on it as soon as he could. And save £350!

[Peter Rush]

Well earlier in the thread the debate turned to the legality (or not) of grey imports/sourcing from Hong Kong and avoiding import duty - I for one am going to DigitalRev for mine and the money I save will pay for the metabones adapter for my EF lenses :) no more struggling at 18-24db for dark evening receptions - happy days :)

I enquired with Digitalrev and Panamoz, and they both say that they pay the import duties, not the customer.

[Clive McLaughlin]

Good man Peter!

I'm also excited about evening parties. I used to have to talk to the band and the venue about light levels - I also had to carry lighting rig with me in the car for extreme darkness. No more!

Also, even in occasions where the light is ok, I can now narrow the aperture and have more than one person at a time in focus on the dancefloor!

[Peter Riding]

I enquired with Digitalrev and Panamoz, and they both say that they pay the import duties, not the customer.

I've used Digitalrev several times over the years for high value items and they've been solid. I have no experience of Panamoz.

But be careful - Digitalrev can have two listings on its website, one the price with everything paid up front and the other (lower) where you take your chances so to speak. So you may have been talking at cross purposes. I'd be surprised if anything got through customs nowadays from Digitalrev as they are such a large well established seller.

You may not get to know about import duties vat and processing fees until after delivery. I've had invoices from Fedex after delivery and there was no mention of it before or on delivery. Other couriers may require you to pay on physical delivery or notify you once delivery is possible so that you settle beforehand.

Pete

[Peter Rush]

This is the response I got from DigitalRev

"Furthermore, please note our listing price has already included import tax fee therefore our customers are not liable for this charge. Therefore to confirm, the final price you find on our check out page is the final price for your order price".

Pete

I'm excited about this camera for it's low light performance, focus aids, Zebras (not to mention 50p and an articulated screen) - the 5D3 will be relegated to stills work from now on - Canon dropped the ball on the mark 3 for me.

Pete

[Dave Partington]

I've bought a couple of times from Digital Rev, always fast delivery, always included delivery and taxes. Nothing more to pay.