F70: No embedded audio on HD-SDI input? at DVinfo.net

Andy Mees · March 4th, 2009, 08:08 AM

Am noticing that we're not able to record HD-SDI embedded audio to the F70 decks. Recording SD-SDI embedded audio works just fine (via PDBK-104). Is this a localized / firmware issue or is this happening for everyone?

Thierry Humeau · March 4th, 2009, 09:16 AM

From where is the embedded HD-SDI audio coming? What deck firmware to you have? At some point (I think firmware 1.60), they were timing issues which preventend recording HD-SDI out of Avid hardware. This was addressed in a subsequent firmware upgrade and now works flowlessly.

Thierry.

Andy Mees · March 4th, 2009, 09:23 PM

Thanks for the response Thierry, that's a good thought, I haven't checked to see if its restricted to a specific source/manufacturer.

I've been testing this using FCP w/ multiple Matrox MXO's and have also tried a Matrox MXO2 driving the HD-SDI outputs ... in all cases I have verified that the HD SDI output signal is or appears to be valid (video/embedded audio checked via Tektronix WFM700) and it all checks out up to the point where it enters the F70.

The current firmware in the multiple F70's that I've checked is generally v1.62 and the issue has been 100% replicated across entirely separate Mac/FCP/MXO/F70 setups. All display this same problem being HD-SDI audio not recognised. (Which is a bugger as we just bought 40+ MXO's to suit this purpose amongst others).

Do you (or anyone else out there) have an F70 or F75 you could test for me? Simply feed it an HD-SDI signal w/ embedded audio, regardless of source, and let me know if the embedded audio is recognised. I'm wondering if a) it simply doesn't work on the F70 b) it doesn't work if and when the PDBK-104 is installed (or if its improperly installed?) c) its a specific firmware issue.

Or maybe as you suggest it could be d) a source issue .... something specific to the Matrox boxes output perhaps, which although verifiable on the WFM700 is simply not recognisable by the F70? I'd assume the output of one F70 ought to be fully compatible with the input of another so I'll hook up two F70's and see if the issue persists. Thanks for that line of thought.

Best
Andy

Mike Watson · March 5th, 2009, 01:43 AM

Andy, we're getting embedded audio via HDSDI into the F70 just fine. I have done HDSDI from FCP via a Kona 3; we also get our in-house router via HDSDI.

We do not use the PDBK-104... If all your menu settings are right, I bet your problem is with the upconverting board.

I will check my firmware in the morning (and if all is well, upgrade it... we just did the U-1 upgrade today) and get back to you.

We got the F70 almost two years ago, and it has (AFAIK) taken HDSDI with embedded audio ever since.

Andy Mees · March 5th, 2009, 06:23 AM

Brilliant, thanks for that Mike, that your F70 is working is just what I needed to hear ... I'll go ahead and have the board removed from one of our decks over the weekend and see if I can confirm it as the source of the problem. If thats the case then its clearly an issue for Sony to look at.

Best
Andy

Thierry Humeau · March 5th, 2009, 09:08 AM

Andy, I doubt the PDBK-104 can be the culprit but it worth a try testing the deck without it. That said, you SHOULD REALLY upgrade your deck's firmware to the current version (1.96). The HD-SDI audio issues I had were right around version 1.6... Also, there are a many things that are much improved with the newer firmware such as switching system frequency and menu navigation. Firmware updateS are free of charge, easy to install and can be downloaded here:

Sony | Micro Site - XDCAM

Thierry.

Mike Watson · March 5th, 2009, 01:02 PM

Andy, I can't seem to figure out what version of firmware the F70 is running. Can you point me in the right direction?

-MW

Thierry Humeau · March 5th, 2009, 03:24 PM

Mike,

To get the Software Version menus of the deck, hold the left arrow (IN) key depressed while pressing the Menu button. This will now display the Maintenance Menus. Use the down arrow key to get to OTHERS menu and then the right arrow to enter this menu. Select the Software Version menu.

Thierry.

Mike Watson · March 5th, 2009, 06:05 PM

I'm running 1.59 on The F70.

-MW

Rick L. Allen · March 5th, 2009, 06:33 PM

Mike, the current version is 1.96 - AT 1.70. This may be part of your problem.

Go to; Sony | Micro Site - XDCAM and follow the links to the F70. You may have to work your way up through a couple of versions to get to 1.96. Check the release notes.

Mike Watson · March 5th, 2009, 11:52 PM

For the record, I don't have a problem -- Andy does. I have the solution. :-) My HD-SDI works just fine!

Actually, it's firmware upgrade time for me, all around. Just installed the new Mac transfer software for the U1 on one of my machines, and after I'm content that it's bug free, I'll update firmware all around -- the U1's, the F70 and the F350. Good to have the same generation everywhere.

Andy Mees · March 6th, 2009, 08:17 AM

Thanks Guys
I have the dubious pleasure of working over the weekend and hopefully will have the chance to nail this. I'll set up a few F70's, remove the PDBK-104 on one, upgrade the firmware on another, and also try some direct F70 to F70 dubs with the existing configs. I'll update the thread with the results of my tests.
Thanks again for all your help
Andy

Greg Boston · March 7th, 2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

Good to have the same generation everywhere.

Not only good practice, Mike, but often a requirement. There are some inter-dependencies in the firmware/software.

-gb-

Andy Mees · March 7th, 2009, 11:03 PM

Yeah Greg, but try doing that with literally hundreds of the things spread amongst kits that are distributed all over the darn planet...

Anyhoo, stop press update: Yesterdays tests turned everything on its head. Basically it all worked :-( Signal generator in to the F70's HDSDI worked fine, as did deck to deck and MXO2 to deck. No need to uninstall the option board. Now there's is no question that when tested last time there was no audio recognized (I've got witnesses, honest!) though I'm thinking I must only have tested with an MXO not also with the MXO2 as I previously stated.

My best guess at the moment culprit-wise is that its specifically an MXO (1) issue, maybe something non-standard about their audio embedding (?) ... I need to rustle one up to retest.

Thanks again for everyone's interest an input

Ben Emery · March 8th, 2009, 01:37 AM

Ok Andy, Im in Beijing at the moment and have just unpacked a brand new MXO1 and installed the latest drivers. And I can confirm that the F70's here are not getting embedded audio from the HD SDI out of the MXO.
as you said previously and I can confirm there is defiantly embedded audio on the output from the MXO, I can hear it through the LMD 9050 monitors.
The F70 can receive embedded Audio on the SD SDI input from the MXO (via PDBK-104)
F70 to F70 HDSDI test show that embedded audio input does work.

so It must be something to do with the MXO 1 right??

Oh and also one of the two F70's here doesn't have the PDBK-104 board added so its got nothing to do with that.

Ben.

March 4th, 2009, 08:08 AM	#1
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	F70: No embedded audio on HD-SDI input? Am noticing that we're not able to record HD-SDI embedded audio to the F70 decks. Recording SD-SDI embedded audio works just fine (via PDBK-104). Is this a localized / firmware issue or is this happening for everyone?

March 4th, 2009, 09:16 AM	#2
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	From where is the embedded HD-SDI audio coming? What deck firmware to you have? At some point (I think firmware 1.60), they were timing issues which preventend recording HD-SDI out of Avid hardware. This was addressed in a subsequent firmware upgrade and now works flowlessly. Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

March 5th, 2009, 09:08 AM	#6
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	Andy, I doubt the PDBK-104 can be the culprit but it worth a try testing the deck without it. That said, you SHOULD REALLY upgrade your deck's firmware to the current version (1.96). The HD-SDI audio issues I had were right around version 1.6... Also, there are a many things that are much improved with the newer firmware such as switching system frequency and menu navigation. Firmware updateS are free of charge, easy to install and can be downloaded here: Sony \| Micro Site - XDCAM Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

March 5th, 2009, 03:24 PM	#8
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	Mike, To get the Software Version menus of the deck, hold the left arrow (IN) key depressed while pressing the Menu button. This will now display the Maintenance Menus. Use the down arrow key to get to OTHERS menu and then the right arrow to enter this menu. Select the Software Version menu. Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

March 5th, 2009, 06:33 PM	#10
Rick L. Allen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 535	Mike, the current version is 1.96 - AT 1.70. This may be part of your problem. Go to; Sony \| Micro Site - XDCAM and follow the links to the F70. You may have to work your way up through a couple of versions to get to 1.96. Check the release notes. __________________ "The good thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not." Neil deGrasse Tyson https://www.nautilusproductions.com/

March 4th, 2009, 09:23 PM	#3
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	Thanks for the response Thierry, that's a good thought, I haven't checked to see if its restricted to a specific source/manufacturer. I've been testing this using FCP w/ multiple Matrox MXO's and have also tried a Matrox MXO2 driving the HD-SDI outputs ... in all cases I have verified that the HD SDI output signal is or appears to be valid (video/embedded audio checked via Tektronix WFM700) and it all checks out up to the point where it enters the F70. The current firmware in the multiple F70's that I've checked is generally v1.62 and the issue has been 100% replicated across entirely separate Mac/FCP/MXO/F70 setups. All display this same problem being HD-SDI audio not recognised. (Which is a bugger as we just bought 40+ MXO's to suit this purpose amongst others). Do you (or anyone else out there) have an F70 or F75 you could test for me? Simply feed it an HD-SDI signal w/ embedded audio, regardless of source, and let me know if the embedded audio is recognised. I'm wondering if a) it simply doesn't work on the F70 b) it doesn't work if and when the PDBK-104 is installed (or if its improperly installed?) c) its a specific firmware issue. Or maybe as you suggest it could be d) a source issue .... something specific to the Matrox boxes output perhaps, which although verifiable on the WFM700 is simply not recognisable by the F70? I'd assume the output of one F70 ought to be fully compatible with the input of another so I'll hook up two F70's and see if the issue persists. Thanks for that line of thought. Best Andy

March 5th, 2009, 01:43 AM	#4
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	Andy, we're getting embedded audio via HDSDI into the F70 just fine. I have done HDSDI from FCP via a Kona 3; we also get our in-house router via HDSDI. We do not use the PDBK-104... If all your menu settings are right, I bet your problem is with the upconverting board. I will check my firmware in the morning (and if all is well, upgrade it... we just did the U-1 upgrade today) and get back to you. We got the F70 almost two years ago, and it has (AFAIK) taken HDSDI with embedded audio ever since.

March 5th, 2009, 06:23 AM	#5
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	Brilliant, thanks for that Mike, that your F70 is working is just what I needed to hear ... I'll go ahead and have the board removed from one of our decks over the weekend and see if I can confirm it as the source of the problem. If thats the case then its clearly an issue for Sony to look at. Best Andy

March 5th, 2009, 01:02 PM	#7
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	Andy, I can't seem to figure out what version of firmware the F70 is running. Can you point me in the right direction? -MW

March 5th, 2009, 06:05 PM	#9
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	I'm running 1.59 on The F70. -MW

March 5th, 2009, 11:52 PM	#11
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	For the record, I don't have a problem -- Andy does. I have the solution. :-) My HD-SDI works just fine! Actually, it's firmware upgrade time for me, all around. Just installed the new Mac transfer software for the U1 on one of my machines, and after I'm content that it's bug free, I'll update firmware all around -- the U1's, the F70 and the F350. Good to have the same generation everywhere.

March 6th, 2009, 08:17 AM	#12
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	Thanks Guys I have the dubious pleasure of working over the weekend and hopefully will have the chance to nail this. I'll set up a few F70's, remove the PDBK-104 on one, upgrade the firmware on another, and also try some direct F70 to F70 dubs with the existing configs. I'll update the thread with the results of my tests. Thanks again for all your help Andy

March 7th, 2009, 11:03 PM	#14
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	Yeah Greg, but try doing that with literally hundreds of the things spread amongst kits that are distributed all over the darn planet... Anyhoo, stop press update: Yesterdays tests turned everything on its head. Basically it all worked :-( Signal generator in to the F70's HDSDI worked fine, as did deck to deck and MXO2 to deck. No need to uninstall the option board. Now there's is no question that when tested last time there was no audio recognized (I've got witnesses, honest!) though I'm thinking I must only have tested with an MXO not also with the MXO2 as I previously stated. My best guess at the moment culprit-wise is that its specifically an MXO (1) issue, maybe something non-standard about their audio embedding (?) ... I need to rustle one up to retest. Thanks again for everyone's interest an input

March 8th, 2009, 01:37 AM	#15
Ben Emery New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 7	Your not going mad Andy! Ok Andy, Im in Beijing at the moment and have just unpacked a brand new MXO1 and installed the latest drivers. And I can confirm that the F70's here are not getting embedded audio from the HD SDI out of the MXO. as you said previously and I can confirm there is defiantly embedded audio on the output from the MXO, I can hear it through the LMD 9050 monitors. The F70 can receive embedded Audio on the SD SDI input from the MXO (via PDBK-104) F70 to F70 HDSDI test show that embedded audio input does work. so It must be something to do with the MXO 1 right?? Oh and also one of the two F70's here doesn't have the PDBK-104 board added so its got nothing to do with that. Ben.