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Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).


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Old April 26th, 2009, 05:06 AM   #76
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I have read with much interest the arrival of the Sony XDCAM F800, and at last Sony have released what I can consider the right up grade for F350 owners. For the last year I have been able to produce some stunning results from the F350 camera and this has served me very well. As a filmmaker and this is what I consider myself to be, I have always been at odds against should I get the EX3 and Letus adapter? Or should I get the ˝ inch relay and ultimate. There even comes a time when you have to step back and think about what you shoot and the development of a story over and above the technical considerations of the camera.

There are many pioneers out there to name a few Philip Bloom and Tom Guilmette who have utilised the 35mm adapter to great effect and continue to do so. I guess at the end of this post I am still not totally convinced should I join the 35mm adapter club or go the Sony F800 route, I wonder if anyone else had this dilemma?

My friend Philip Bloom has been utilising the adapter format very successfully for a lot of his work, but in an already over crowded marketplace where everyone now seems to own or will plan to purchase a 35mm adapter, I then begin to think more about being creative on screen because ultimately that is what counts.

So a note to Sony if you would like us to review and shoot with the F800, I am ready like I am sure everyone else that reads or comments on this post.
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Old April 26th, 2009, 12:08 PM   #77
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There's not a lot that a review would tell us over a PDW-700. The basic picture quality is the same and the added features such as image invert, VF overlays on SDi, Dual CC wheels are easy to work out.

The focus assist is nice, there is a box in the center of the viewfinder with a bar graph beneath. As the area in the box gets sharper the bar moves to the right, when it starts to move back to the left the image is getting softer. So you can see by the graph when the image is sharpest. The only downside is that you must go through focus to find out where the peak is, as the peak point depends on the amount of detail in the image.

As for overcrank, well we know how it works on the F3** and this camera is the same only with the picture quality of the 700. There was plenty of demo material being shown at NAB and it did look good.

The user gammas are more interesting. You need to have a PC to brew your own curves and then you can upload 5 curves to the camera using a memory stick. This is not unlike the way you can programme the curves on Sony's HDCAM SR cameras.
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Old April 26th, 2009, 12:43 PM   #78
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Well thanks for the info Alister, for me I was excited at the prospect of what we could get out of the camera of course most of this would be the improvement in picture.

Did you have an opinion on the 1/2 relay and the ultimate with the F350? this I would really like to get everyone's feedback.....is this the way to go? I 've asked Phil already who always give good advice, but I just wanted to know if other people on the non adapter front if they will continue on their path e.g. camera and stock lense?

I just like the full size camera format when shooting personally, but the F800 has caught my attention more so than the F700, ok it's almost the same but not quite.
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Old April 27th, 2009, 12:04 AM   #79
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PC setting up gamma curves

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Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post

The user gammas are more interesting. You need to have a PC to brew your own curves and then you can upload 5 curves to the camera using a memory stick. This is not unlike the way you can programme the curves on Sony's HDCAM SR cameras.
Why wouldn't they offer this same functionality with the 700?
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Old April 27th, 2009, 07:52 AM   #80
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Quote:
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snip.....
Did you have an opinion on the 1/2 relay and the ultimate with the F350? this I would really like to get everyone's feedback.....is this the way to go? I 've asked Phil already who always give good advice, but I just wanted to know if other people on the non adapter front if they will continue on their path e.g. camera and stock lense?

I just like the full size camera format when shooting personally, but the F800 has caught my attention more so than the F700, ok it's almost the same but not quite.

The 800 comes with the image flip feature which would allow you to by-pass the use of an optical image flip module. This will make the 35mm adaptor rig much more compact, lightweight and streamlined. I am looking at getting Cinevate's system to use with the 800. Since their system is modular, you would just need the B4 relay and the 35mm Brevis MP.2 adaptor. The all rig will most likely be lighter and more compact than any standard HD zoom lens. That is exciting.

Thierry.
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Old April 27th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #81
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In reply to James: Perhaps the user gammas require different hardware to implement as they can not be hard coded as with the hypergammas and standard gammas. I don't know, maybe it's just one of the things used to differentiate between the cameras. While the hardware may be similar there is still R&D costs to recoup.

The image flip option does make it easier to use 35mm adapters, but it wouldn't be too difficult to flip the image on an external VF on the 700.
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Old May 12th, 2009, 09:02 AM   #82
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The camera is coming in today and should be here all week. I'll be putting it through some tests and clarifying the big differences between the 800 and 700. I'd like to put together a comparison chart and break down the price difference as well. Please let me know if there is anything you'd like me to check out and I'll post my results.
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Old May 12th, 2009, 05:24 PM   #83
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PDW F800 at CineGear?

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Originally Posted by Andy Shipsides View Post
The camera is coming in today and should be here all week. I'll be putting it through some tests and clarifying the big differences between the 800 and 700. I'd like to put together a comparison chart and break down the price difference as well. Please let me know if there is anything you'd like me to check out and I'll post my results.
That's great news Andy, any chance you guys will have an 800 at Cinegear?

I'd love to see a side by side shot of the same action in 25/50P to see the resolution loss in the overcranking mode....... and

Some sort of assessment of whether the using the CC wheel the noise in the blue chip is more obvious (Sony have contradicted their own sales gaff as to why they only put an ND wheel in the 700), and can you get any balance regardles of CC filter - ie can I sill get a high daylight balance (10k +)on the clear CC filter, and finally....

What stop do you get at ND 4 CC D and the sun at your back (I know this is subjective to the lense you are using and the weather in your location but,) for example I'm struggling with my Fuji HD lenses in full daylight I'm often at 5.6/8 and having to use a Pola and or shutter to get to 2.8/4 which is where I prefer to be.

Thanks very much for offering, sorry for the laundry list but hey you asked!

Cheers, Brad.
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Old May 12th, 2009, 07:43 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Shipsides View Post
The camera is coming in today and should be here all week. I'll be putting it through some tests and clarifying the big differences between the 800 and 700. I'd like to put together a comparison chart and break down the price difference as well. Please let me know if there is anything you'd like me to check out and I'll post my results.
An 800 tomorrow? I thought they were not due in the country until July.

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Old May 13th, 2009, 08:03 AM   #85
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It's the same demo unit that was at NAB. We shouldn't get any new units until the end of June / early July.

Brad, thanks for the questions. I'm going to be doing some tests the next couple of days and I should have some good answers for you. We aren't going to CineGear this year, though I could be wrong, but I'm sure the camera will be there.

Andy
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Old May 13th, 2009, 10:02 AM   #86
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Wayne told me there are only two 800's in the country at present. The rest of them from NAB had to go back to Japan. We couldn't get one yesterday for an event here in Dallas.

There are 5 or 6 distinct differences between the two cameras. By that I mean things that the 700 cannot have added as an option.

Over/under crank
Image Invert
Focus Assist (the feature Alister described above)
Optical CC wheel
User Gamma curve

About the only upgrade option for the 800 is the Pool Feed input.

Both cameras have focus mag which works like the EX where the image size is doubled in the VF. The interesting thing we found out at NAB was that focus mag and focus assist do not function in 24P.

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Old May 14th, 2009, 11:16 AM   #87
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Greg

You're right the Focus Magnification and Digital Extender do not work in 23.98. Also 23.98 is not supported in SD record modes.

Andy
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Old May 14th, 2009, 04:40 PM   #88
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Andy,

What are our options as far as using the image inverter and mounting 35mm lenses on the 800. I would assume the 35mm lens adptor would be much more compact and simpler to built since it does not have to incorporate an optical flip module?

Thanks.

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Old May 20th, 2009, 08:22 AM   #89
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The Image Inverter works in all frame rates and record formats. And you're right, with this is much simpler 35mm lens adapter (without a flip module which also reduces light) can be used. I think this is a great pro feature. The F800 really has all the makings of the F900 with all the option boards included.

Andy
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Old May 20th, 2009, 09:01 PM   #90
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But so, is anyone making that perfect 35mm lens adaptor without an optical flip module?

T.
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