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Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).


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Old January 24th, 2010, 07:17 AM   #16
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Just had another look to see if I could find the zero point for Aperture and there doesn't appear to be one!

Now I didn't use a monitor, I was just using the viewfinder and peaking trying to determine the point at which turning aperture on and off made no difference. Even at -99 aperture appears to be adding HF detail, certainly the peaking was indicating higher contrast with aperture on at -99. Certainly Aperture steadily increases the HF boost as you increase it from -99 all the way up to +99. If I'm correct then it's an interesting setting range and it makes me more comfortable with the -30 setting that I found initially.
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Old January 24th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #17
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I did some quick impromtu checks. Basically, I shot with my aformentioned detail settings,(mine about the same as Alister's), and then switched the detail circuit off, and shot again with just the Aperture set to +60 (per Simon).
Bottom line, +60 Aperture (alone) is strongly more enhanced on this PMW350 than the detail setting we have been talking about..

As far as where the Aperture circuit zero point is, around -40 on a practical, observable level. If I used maximal peaking in the viewfinder per Alister, maybe an infintesimal change in the peaking could be seen down to -90.

Nothing was answered by what I did, except I did see you could make a case as Simon noted for using the Aperture as the sole mechanism, but +60 is too far with this example.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 02:56 PM   #18
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I am back home and have some time over the next few hours to do some testing, I will look into Aperture settings and post what I find.

I have the Marshall 70P SDI corrected monitor on the camera running through Nano. Since the sun is setting and raining hard outside. I will use a few large still prints that have excellent detail.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 03:55 PM   #19
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Just so I am on the same page looking at the same settings I have two questions.

Alister your settings above are the only ones you have changed everything else is factory presets?

Tom when you change Multi Matrix, Axis settings you do each on its own to +5 correct? I do not see a (All) to change them at the same time. Just checking to make sure I am looking at the same settings.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 04:08 PM   #20
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Currently everything else is default with the exception of using Hypergamma 4 (4609).
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Old January 25th, 2010, 04:31 PM   #21
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Great Alister that is what I used for your setting. Also playing with Black Gamma on at H Mid -30 while using Hyper 4 and like it.

When I look at Aperture Off and -30 seems to be closer to me then -20. That is the case on the Marshall and the LCD. I also have the camera hooked up to a 40" Sony Bravia and interesting on that is seems more in the range of -35 equal to Off.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 04:46 PM   #22
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Interesting between Tom's and Alister's settings, I need to expose Tom's at F4 and Alister's at F5.6 to be the same. Just an observation.

Aperture above 0 with either setting is very electronic in the picture for my eye. Now at +99 the fine detail is better then my eye zoomed in, not that I like it just amazing how sensitive these chips are with detail.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 04:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cronin View Post
Tom when you change Multi Matrix, Axis settings you do each on its own to +5 correct? I do not see a (All) to change them at the same time.
That's right Paul, have to do each on its own, individually.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 05:36 PM   #24
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Thanks Tom that is what I thought just trying not to miss anything as I move forward here.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 02:23 PM   #25
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I fooled around some more with the detail settings. One thing I noticed, the PMW350 stays ridiculously detailed even with the Detail Off, doesn't go at all soft.

The detail "on" setting I have been using is a subtle enhancement. When switched off, the high frequency details in the picture can still be enhanced by the Aperture Setting. With detail off, I experimented with Aperture settings from -20 to +30.

The resolved details seem so inherent, there doesn't appear to be any adverse noise effects caused by virtually any of the settings, very forgiving.

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Old January 27th, 2010, 02:47 PM   #26
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Agree Tom I have not been noticing noise problems while playing around with the settings.

Between -20 to +30 what Aperture do you prefer? And with detail on or off?
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Old January 27th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #27
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I found noise to become a little more apparent with aperture above +20, not a terribly noticeable until you get to +40. As I said detail off is a very valid option on the 350, especially for filmic looks, but I find many people prefer to see some detail enhancement as it's what they are used to seeing. It's difficult getting that balance between a neutral, un-enhanced picture and one that is not perceived as "soft" by some viewers.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 03:52 PM   #28
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Interesting you say that Alister. I have four Paint settings and one is called Film which has Detail off. I did some test with this setting and the Canon J15x9.5B4 lens and the picture was very "Soft" which is not to my liking but nice to have the option.

Second called ANatural has Detail On and the stock lens with aperture at -20 and detail at -14 I like the picture. This has the rest of the settings as you posted.

Third called TSat also has detail on with the extra punch Tom put in with the +5 in the Multi Matrix.

As with all of them it is still very early stages of a work in progress. But we are making progress.

I have four aerial shoot with lots of snow coming up in Feb. Any suggestions? My plan was to use Sat but as always I am very open to suggestions.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 03:55 PM   #29
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With Detail On, I am using Aperture at -20. What I want to try next is to increase the Black Limit from +20 to +35. On a very high contrast edge, I noted a thin black outline.

With Detail Off, and just using the Aperture as the primary detail enhancement mechanism, 0 or +10 looked pretty good to me, without the black outline on the high contrast edge.

But either way, Detail On (Level -15), Frequency (+35), White Limit (+35), Black Limit (+20) and Aperture (-20)

or

Detail Off and Aperture at (+10), they look about the same, except without the black outline for the latter. If I switch the Detail back ON, I think I can get rid of the black outline by upping the Black Limit to match the White Limit, i.e. to (+35), something I want to try anyway.

But again, not a lot of difference between Detail On (above settings), or Aperture (+10) and Detail Off.

But if the Detail On setting can be preserved, you have the Level Depend and Crispening features available to squelch the noise in the dark areas if you were shooting at night, or against club lighting or spot lighting, features that you would lose if the detail is switched off.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 04:00 PM   #30
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Paul, only reason I might recommend against my own Sat (+5) setting for that aerial shot with all the snow, would be to avoid putting extra emphasis on chromatic aberrations on the white snow, and since you will probably be grading in post anyway.
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