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Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
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Old February 20th, 2010, 05:37 PM   #61
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What is the easiest way to crank up saturation a bit in the PMW-350 paint settings?

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Old February 20th, 2010, 09:52 PM   #62
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There's not an easy way. You have to bump the saturation 16 times, one for each axis in the multi-matrix menu.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 02:30 PM   #63
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3 Practical Presets for Everyday Use

*************************************************************
Name : Alister_Hybrid:

Gamma Select: (Hypergamma) 4 4609

Black Gamma : On
Level : -40
Range: H.Mid

Detail : On
Level : -12
H/V Ratio : +35
Frequency: +55
White Limit : +75
Black Limit : +75

Aperture : On
Level : -20

Preset Matrix : On
Preset Select : 2

Multi- Matrix : On
Axis : B,B+,MG-,MG,MG+,R,R+,YL-,YL,YL+,G-,G,G+,CY,CY+,B- (All)
Saturation: +5

Comments: Hybrid preset combines elements of Alister's gamma settings with Tom's detail and color settings. Pros: Neutral, wide latitude, forgiving of exposure, punchy preset works indoors or out.
Cons: Compresses highlights, disables Knee, about 1 f-stop slower than ITU - R709.

**************************************************************

Name : ITU - R709 SAT

Gamma Select : 5 R709

Black Gamma : On
Level : +10
Range: H.Mid

Detail : On
Level : -12
H/V Ratio : +35
Frequency: +55
White Limit : +75
Black Limit : +75

Aperture : On
Level : -20

Knee : On
Knee Point : 84%
Knee Slope : +30

Preset Matrix : On
Preset Select : 2

Multi- Matrix : On
Axis : B,B+,MG-,MG,MG+,R,R+,YL-,YL,YL+,G-,G,G+,CY,CY+,B- (All)
Saturation: +10

Comments: Dynamic, wide range preset for transparent capture with perceived detail and contrast.
Pros: About 1 f-stop faster than Hypergamma 4, very clean and saturated, preserves Knee function. Maximum dynamic range.
Cons: Sensitive to overexposing of highlights. Use Auto-Iris -0.5, or expose scene manually.

**************************************************************

Name : Low Light

Gamma Select : 5 R709

Black Gamma : On
Level : +10
Range: L.Mid

Detail : On
Level : -12
H/V Ratio : +35
Crispening : +20
Level Depend Level : +15
Frequency: +55
White Limit : +75
Black Limit : +75

Aperture : On
Level : -20

Low Key Saturation : On
Level : +10
Range: L.Mid

Knee : On
Knee Point : 84%
Knee Slope : +35

Preset Matrix : On
Preset Select : 2

Multi- Matrix : On
Axis : B,B+,MG-,MG,MG+,R,R+,YL-,YL,YL+,G-,G,G+,CY,CY+,B- (All)
Saturation: +15

Comments:
Indoor preset is low noise and saturated, with maximum sensitivity.
Pros: Preserves sensitivity and shadow detail in varying low light conditions, retains color without emphasizing noise.
Cons: Sensitive to overexposing of highlights, use Auto-Iris -0.5 or expose manually

**************************************************************

End
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Old February 24th, 2010, 02:44 PM   #64
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Wow Tom you have been busy. Thank you for posting three detailed settings. I will add these to my scene files and check them out. So far my scene file of choice has been Alister's Natural.

This weekend if it ever stops raining or early next week I will be testing on my EX350 a Canon HJ17x and Fujinon ZA17x. I will look at each setting in the proper light to help me decide which lens to buy. I have a strong feeling already for my lens of choice, but testing in the field with my 350 and a friend with his F800 will be the true deciding factor. I think it is easy to get narrow vision with studio testing and scopes and miss the point, which is what the client will receive. Besides I don’t have scopes but I do know what I like and what my clients are looking for. So my testing will be real world shooting as if I was delivering to a client.

Alister have you modified your Natural setting after your trip North?

Again Thank You Tom for all of your hard work making this happen.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #65
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I actually had one more Paul, which was another variation of Alister's but with a slightly higher saturation. In the end, I too preferred the natural look, and to not overemphasize the color saturation with the hypergamma, that seemed to work better with the ITU R709 gamma, so I omitted that preset.

As for the ITU R709 gamma, I share your concern about recording of the highlights hot. The adjustment I made, is the knee adjustment, and to underexpose the scene by about 1/2 stop, while bumping up the black gamma so as to not crush the blacks.

I tested the Alister_Hybrid and ITU R709 SAT in various lighting conditions, flat lighting, and also high contrast lighting. If you have the proper exposure, both presets take on a similar look that mostly differ in just the extreme highlights and lowlights, with the ITU R709 being more contrasty.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 03:34 PM   #66
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No I have not changed my Neutral settings. If you are going to do any serious grading work I would turn the Black Gamma off. This will give you more shadow detail to play with in post, but straight out of the camera the pictures look rather flat. A compromise would be black gamma on, H-Mid -20.

I have a couple of days set aside next week for some further experimentation.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 07:50 AM   #67
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Alister,
I have been using Black Gamma on, H. Mid, at -30 but will check it out at -20 and also look with Black Gamma off when I do a lot of grading which is very rare. Look forward to any updates you might have. Two delivered jobs on the current setting and both customers are very happy.

Tom,
I tried your settings and still prefer Alister's Natural. Alister's is very easy to expose and does not seem to have the electronic look your setting seem to give. Why are you pushing the B/W limits so high? Also I really like the HG 4609 and can't fully explain why but each time I look at it I have a smile an feel I am on the right path.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:16 PM   #68
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Paul,

I'm not really sure what you are calling my setting, but I think you are just stating a clear preference for the HG 4609 which I agree is nice.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:29 PM   #69
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Tom,

Sorry if I was not clear. I do prefer the HG 4609. Also I think in Alister setting he keeps the White Limit, Black Limit, Frequency, and Black Gamma setting lower. To me this is a more natural and less electronic look. I could be off base but that was my point.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 08:27 PM   #70
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Paul,

Below are 100% crops from frame grabs from the most recent detail settings Alister posted in #43 (on top) and mine (on bottom). I shot them identically with HG 4609. The difference between the two groups of detail settings are not so large as to expect that the lower one should appear less natural or more electronic, thus the reason for examining the crops in detail. In fact, I find these two settings to be grossly unremarkable for their difference, but you can in fact see the result of the higher Black/White Limit settings as causing slightly softer outlines on the contrast edges. To me this is more natural.

You might find it helpful to examine these at 200%.

**************************************

Alister's detail setting from post #43

Detail level -14
H/V Ratio +15
Frequency +40
White Limit +38
Black Limit +30

Hypergamma is HG 4609 (HG4)

**************************************

Tom's detail setting:

Detail level -12
H/V Ratio +35
Frequency +55
White Limit +75
Black Limit +75

Hypergamma is HG 4609 (HG4)
Attached Thumbnails
PMW-350 Developing Scene Files (Picture Profiles)-composite.bmp  
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Old February 26th, 2010, 06:53 AM   #71
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Tom looking at those two crops I agree one is softer showing less edge detail.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 11:01 AM   #72
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The setting in the group that always causes me the most concern is the Frequency. As the Frequency is increased, the width of the outlines drawn become narrower. It's good on the one hand because it makes the appearance of each individual outline less prominent, analogous to enhancing with a fine artist pencil instead of a black felt marker. But it is a double edged sword because the number of instances (the quantity) of these finer edges within the scene may be vastly higher, stressing the codec, creating haze, moire, or other artifacts.

So the frequency is a compromise, the setting could be too high or too low depending on the scene. Since I don't want to worry about it when I'm shooting, I settle on the above value, and it may not be ideal for every situation. That's why your observation was a big worry to me. I could reduce the Frequency setting and have no worries about the potential for electronic noise, but if it draws cartoon-like outlines around images, that's not good either.

By comparison, the Black/White Limit seems like a low risk proposition. Increasing the Limit makes the outlines stand out less, but the effect of the setting is subtle. So we look at the number 75, and think that's a lot! But it's all relative. It's just a number, and the effect even at 100% limit is not really profound.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 11:13 AM   #73
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Understand Tom but you have to look at it from my point of view. I shoot very fast motion and need as one client says "Show me the detail and have it real". So going too soft on the edges hurts that, and anytime I have increased to the upper numbers with a setting i have not been happy with the results after we land. Too expensive for me to make that mistake. So that is why I did fast motion test and gave the comments I posted.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 08:31 AM   #74
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Alister, Tom, anyone else who is using a 350. I am still trying to tweak my scene files and am not fully happy with the results. Have you tweaked your files and are you happy with the results?
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Old March 9th, 2010, 10:22 AM   #75
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I'm still fiddling a little. I have been looking at the colour matrix of both the 350 and EX1/3 and have some new settings that remove the slight yellow/green cast that I don't really like. It enhances reds and blues a little. I don't have the settings to hand but I'll write them up as soon as I can.
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