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Old February 6th, 2013, 01:31 AM   #16
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

The "bad" thing about hypergamma for your general work is that it somewhat darkens the overall picture (50% grey turns also darker).

Gives great latitude for outside (sunny) shots or general highlights work, but isnt a good choice when shooting in dark / low light environments where you could need that extra brightness in the picture.

At least heaving a "standard HG" setup and a second "ITU 709" setting is very handy.
If you feel more familiar with both you can start setting up more profiles for dedicated situations (saturated green for nature shots etc.)

best regards

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Old June 16th, 2013, 08:26 AM   #17
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
I am hesitant to recommend the F800 field guide for owners of the PMW-500 or 700.
Doug, As a PDW700 user myself and interested in purchasing your guide, I see the paper book is sold out and the digital version is specific to the 800. Just wondering if you are working on a 700 version or if the 800 guide would be similar enough? I havent used an 800 personally and wonder if the user menus are numbered differently or much different?

eg I noted a comment on another thread that the 800 Detail is factory set softer than the 700, equivalent to -19 apparently (but not sure if on the 800 the menu says 0 or just ships at -19). Not completely sure of all the other differences and if any gotchas other than the advertised added features the 800 has.

Thanks
Mark
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Old June 16th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #18
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your interest in a PDW-700 Field Guide. You are correct that the printed version of the F800/700 guide is sold out. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to create an iBook version for the 700 like I did for the F800. Yes, there are some differences between the cameras but as far as I know all the 700 owners who have purchased the F800 iBook are happy with it. The only paint menu difference is the detail level, and you already know about that. Most of the other difference are changes in the menu numbering and a few missing advanced features. At least 98% of the iBook applies to both cameras, and I think anyone who is at the level of owning an 700 should have no problem figuring out what applies and what doesn't. In hindsight I should have had the iBook cover both cameras, but my original intention was to create a specific book for each one . . . unfortunately a busy schedule this year has gotten in the way!
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Old June 19th, 2013, 05:38 AM   #19
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

Hi Doug,

Thanks for replying, I purchased your iBook the other day and as you indicated it is straight forward for 700 operators to identify the minor differences that apply to 800 only.

Having seen some of your DVDs for other cameras, your sample footage on these DVDs does look good: Rich blacks and good colour saturation and I share your desire to create a look in camera that avoids grading since most of my work is long form, run and gun. I have your FS100 DVDs and just set up your suggested look on my FS100 and the picture really does "pop" rich blacks and vibrant saturated colour. However your PDW-700/800 Hypergamma 2/4 settings, although a natural and wider range are more of a flat look which doesnt "pop". Test results with HG2 look like would need a basic grade to lift midtones and add add chroma saturation.

I'm curious why not just use ITU-R709 on the 700 like you use on the FS100? There is more knee control on the 700 to handle highlights, albeit not as natural as a HG curve. Have you been happy with HG2 look without any grading? Isnt the picture a bit dark and flat?
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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:11 AM   #20
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

Hi Doug,

Was keen to check out the guide - is it available to Australian residents? It finds the full title in the search field of the 'ibooks' app during a search, but then there is no book to select once the search is complete... Might be a itunes region problem, unless I'm doing something wrong?

Cheers,
Dan Soekov
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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:32 AM   #21
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

Ahh.. was trying to download this on an iPhone 5 - but it looks as if you need an iPad.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #22
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

Yes, you need an iPad or iPad mini. For various technical and economic reasons, Apple's iBook is the only platform that I am interested in doing eBooks for. I know that leaves some people out of the loop, but there is no other viable option.

Thanks for checking it out.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:42 AM   #23
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark P. Stuart View Post
Hi Doug,

Thanks for replying, I purchased your iBook the other day and as you indicated it is straight forward for 700 operators to identify the minor differences that apply to 800 only.

Having seen some of your DVDs for other cameras, your sample footage on these DVDs does look good: Rich blacks and good colour saturation and I share your desire to create a look in camera that avoids grading since most of my work is long form, run and gun. I have your FS100 DVDs and just set up your suggested look on my FS100 and the picture really does "pop" rich blacks and vibrant saturated colour. However your PDW-700/800 Hypergamma 2/4 settings, although a natural and wider range are more of a flat look which doesnt "pop". Test results with HG2 look like would need a basic grade to lift midtones and add add chroma saturation.

I'm curious why not just use ITU-R709 on the 700 like you use on the FS100? There is more knee control on the 700 to handle highlights, albeit not as natural as a HG curve. Have you been happy with HG2 look without any grading? Isnt the picture a bit dark and flat?
Hi Mark,

When it comes to scene files, it's all just a matter of personal taste. My decision to use Hypergammas has to do with how highlights are handled and, in my opinion, any of the four are vastly superior to the standard gammas. But Hypergammas aren't the only ingredient in the recipe. You also have to pay attention to saturation, detail, black levels, white balance, and most importantly, exposure.

If you are not liking the results you are getting, I would say you are either not using all the settings and shooting techniques that I use, or you simply have a different point of view as to what looks good. Nothing wrong with that! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I certainly don't insist my settings are right for everyone.

Also, I don't disagree that my F800 settings don't pop quite as much as they do with a cheap camera like the FS100. The F800 is capable of a more refined, nicer, image with nice mid-tones than the cheaper cameras and I want to take advantage of that.

However, with all that said, I personally ise HG3 most of the time these days because I'm not shooting for broadcast and I want to take advantage of the extra exposure headroom it allows. But keep in mind HG3 is just one ingredient in the mix.

Are my images dark and flat? I don't think so. Here's something I shot after NAB and I have only touched up a few shots a little.


And here are some other non-graded images from the F800 I shot this winter for stock. I'm not saying this is perfect footage because some shots will require grading before being submitted.

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Old June 19th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #24
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

Hi Doug,

Very nice camera work and footage, your use of HG sure does look good and you have the exposure nailed!

I've only done basic comparison tests in the office here switching between HG and R709. I will have to go out and shoot HG in the environment I am used to working, then view comprehensively on the timeline during the edit. Thereafter make judgement which works best for me.

I've shot with R709 and DCC for years and am used to a certain in-camera look, however I understand the reasons why you recommend not using either. I'll use recent learned knowledge on the subject to try new settings and look out for issues. I guess its all subjective and depends on our subject matter and other variables. One thing for sure as you say, correct exposure is the most important thing.

The FS100 is a 2nd camera, locked off usually and I intercut with the PDW700. Its important for me that I set-up picture profiles on each that match as close as possible. Therefore I'll tweak to suit.

Nice talking to you Doug.

All the best!
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Old June 20th, 2013, 08:39 AM   #25
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Re: Vortex Media's PDW-F800 Digital Field Guide

Mark, thanks for the kind words. I'm sure you'll get your camera performing exactly how you like it, sometimes it just takes some time.
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