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Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).


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Old February 6th, 2014, 05:47 PM   #1
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blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Hi everybody, do you have any idea what could be this blue spot/fringe?! blue flare!!? I have seen chromatic aberration lens problem but nothing like that!!
I had this problem only in these scenes when I was facing the sun, just when shooting against light source!!
The rest of the b-roll is perfect so to speak!
In these scenes I used a Sony PDW-700 with a Fujinon A13X4.5BERM-M48 SD LENS. HD 1080i
please go to this video and have a look.. password for Vimeo video: dvmembers
Any idea?! please.
Many thanks
Samer
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Last edited by Samer Aslan; February 7th, 2014 at 01:28 AM.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 08:36 AM   #2
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

First thing I would do is clean the sensor. I think that is the root of the problem but it becomes more noticeable when there is a lens flare.

All the video looks poor quality with blown highlights, soft detail, and bad contrast. What are your scene file settings? I would never have guessed it was shot with a PDW-700.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 09:05 AM   #3
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Looks like a similar blue spot you get with a Lens Turbo Focal Reducer attachment on the Sony NEX cameras/camcorders.

It only happens when facing the sun ... something to do with the coating, or the way the glass is curved ... I don't know? wild guesses.

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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:13 AM   #4
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
First thing I would do is clean the sensor. I think that is the root of the problem but it becomes more noticeable when there is a lens flare.

All the video looks poor quality with blown highlights, soft detail, and bad contrast. What are your scene file settings? I would never have guessed it was shot with a PDW-700.
Hi Doug, thank you for replying, I just bought this PDW700 used with 500 hours of operation and used it for this job for the first time!, the scene file is "natural" provided by Sony I think and it's one of the 32 scene files found in the internet and as i said given by Sony!!
I hope very much that the problem is only to clean the sensor!! and not worse!! I must say that I cleaned it before using the camera!, I hope I didn't do something wrong :( I cleaned it with a lenspen, blower and a brush.. how would you recommend to clean it if there's another way than this ?
By the way I was hoping to buy your Guide for the PDW700 but it's sold out !!!:(( I hope a digital one will come soon.
Thank you for your time
Regards
Samer
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Last edited by Samer Aslan; February 7th, 2014 at 12:32 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:20 AM   #5
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Hi James,Thanks. It happen only when facing the sun or a strong light source so I hope it have to do with lens and not camera as I just brought it :(( but as you can see it's very severe in the video I shot!!
Thank you for replying
Samer
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Old February 7th, 2014, 05:12 PM   #6
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samer Aslan View Post
:( I cleaned it with a lenspen, blower and a brush.. how would you recommend to clean it if there's another way than this ? By the way I was hoping to buy your Guide for the PDW700 but it's sold out !!!:(( I hope a digital one will come soon.
Thank you for your time
Regards
Samer
It would be very rare that a 2/3" camera would need to be cleaned behind the lens. In 30 years of being in the business, and owning several 2/3" Betacams and XDCAM cameras, I have never needed to clean a single one. So if you got in there and started messing around, I'll bet you may have caused some sort of problem. Maybe you left residue? May you damaged something? Maybe nothing is wrong at all? It is hard to say without seeing the camera but that is the first place I'd start looking to find the source of the problem you are having.

Also, you should never use a blower on a camera because it just forces the dust deeper into the system. And I would never touch it with a brush, either. Soft swaps are all I use on SLRs and the Super35mm video cameras -- and ONLY when I am absolutely sure there is a problem. And then I check and recheck several times to be sure I got the problem and didn't create any new ones. I've never successfully cleaned a sensor on the first try. And I would never clean a sensor just as routine maintenance. Only clean it if you see a problem.

Aim your camera at a plain white wall or a clear sky and then adjust your aperture to around f/22 and zoom out wide. If you see any spots, you've got a filthy sensor.

I'm sorry the F800/700 book is sold out, but I do have an iBook edition as an alternative if you have an iPad or iPad mini. Technically the iBook is written for the F800, but about 95% of the information applies to the 700 as well. And the iBook is a lot less expensive than the printed book used to cost.

Field Guide: Vortex Media's XDCAM Field Guides
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Old February 7th, 2014, 08:07 PM   #7
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

If the problem was with the sensor, the blue spot wouldn't move. Since it does move when you zoom or pan, the problem is with your lens, or you have a light leak onto the sensor.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 04:17 AM   #8
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Thanks again for replying. I have to say that this the first time that i clean a sensor! never had to! I also owned and used different 2/3 cameras and never cleaned the sensor but this case I so some dust on the sensor and i don't know why it came natural to me to clean it this way!! i hope i didn't do any damage but i will do some more tests and i just ordered these(Visible Dust EZ Plus Kit Sensor Clean 1.6: Amazon.it: Elettronica) to clean the sensor. what about that scene file you asked me about!? did you used Sony's scene files and found it too soft!?
Thank you for your time and I will definitely buy the guide if you say it covers 95% of the PDW700 also  and your right about the price I already own other stuff from Vortex media such as the FS100 dvd and white cards etc and find them great..I imagine that PP you have on your guide is ok also for the PDW700 as they share the same sensor!!I
regards
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Old February 8th, 2014, 04:22 AM   #9
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto View Post
If the problem was with the sensor, the blue spot wouldn't move. Since it does move when you zoom or pan, the problem is with your lens, or you have a light leak onto the sensor.
Warren.Thank you for replying,that does make sense...the light leak depends on the camera mount or the lens!? i will check that too..
regards
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Old February 9th, 2014, 04:24 PM   #10
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Hi Doug, Let me start by saying that i'm reading your guide and I regret the fact i didn't buy it before!!
It's a must have for a PDW 700/F800 owners...i followed your advices mentioned in the first 18 pages and have done a quick test and the flare is more acceptable now from what i see!! I will do a more serious tests with more lenses i have and link the video here, right now i'm working a lot and come back home late and im working with another camera not the PDW700 so didn't have the chance to test it yet.
If you have time and can take a look at the video i have done today and let me know what do you think would be great :)
Thank you for your time and interest
video link:
password:dvmembers2

Thank you all for the interest and for sharing your thoughts
regards
samer
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Old February 10th, 2014, 05:02 AM   #11
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Hi Samer,

After watching your videos here I think you need to send your lens in for a service. The lens flare that I see here is not natural and there seems to be a problem, what it is I don't know. The PDW 700 should not be exhibiting this sort of problem.

Cheers,
Simon
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Old February 10th, 2014, 06:22 AM   #12
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

When looking at the first video that certainly is no dust on the sensor, I have enough experience to know how that should look like, eventhough the blue flare in the second video is a lot less it doesn't look like normal behavior, I"m with Simon that you should send the camera in for a checkup.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 06:58 AM   #13
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Possibly a dumb question, but do you have a hood or flags to protect the lens from being hit with sunlight when shooting at close angles to the sun or other strong light source? Might "fix" the problem cheaply... IF it is "just" flare (see below).

There are definitely "lens flares" - in one segment, you see them symmetrically on the lower right half of the frame, opposite the one that seems to be rather more prominent in the upper left quadrant. Sometimes that can be a very nice "effect"... though in this case not so much...

What typically happens is that the sunlight comes in at just the "right" (or wrong) angle to hit one of the lens elements in such a way it creates a "hot spot", which then reflects on the OTHER elements (that string of "jewels" is the spot hitting all the different surfaces of the individual elements!), depending on the zoom and angle of the lens to the light source. The CX550 handy cam was "famous" for a "blue spot", much as you have... a hood worked wonders, as did a zoom in of around 5%. The blue color could be a result of the coatings used on the elements - not the most pleasing color for a "flare", to be sure.


That said, there was a smear-y quality as well as a persistence, to the spot in the upper left, so there is a chance you've got dirt, mold or some other debris on one of the lens elements that's showing up optically as an out of focus "spot" when exposed to bright light. Examine the lens closely, use a strong light to examine the "innards" of the lens - it's tricky to get an external light to reflect off of the inside elements, but it is possible with practice - remember that it could be a very TINY spot, but see if you can see anything INSIDE the lens - if it's on one of the exposed elements, you can probably clean it - it something got or grew INSIDE, it's a pro job...

I am with the "crowd" here that it's not likely to be your sensor, and you'd see it if it was in a consistent "spot", not one that moves around.

<EDIT>
After looking at the second video, your first lens has a LOT of crud on or in it... there are bright spots that are NOT flare, typically caused by tiny bits of dust on the lens surfaces or filters. ANY glass surface, even "coated" ones, can be reflective, and tight angle to bright light is the WORST scenario possible - your glass must be IMPECCABLY clean to pull it off... yours is somewhere between filthy and "ewww"...

Your other lens is a bit of a mystery - obviously "different" flare type issues (expected, as every lens will have different properties), there is something going on there that might be just crud on the lens elements, but it could also have been light reflecting off of the sensor back onto the rear element of that particular lens - evident as a sort of "ghosting" in places rather than the string of jewels that evidences flare. Only way to "cure" that is not shoot directly into strong lights, which is generally considered "good practice" for a reason.

Sorry if this was a bit long, but hopefully it will be helpful. One of the downsides to interchangeable lenses is they risk exposure to dust, dirt, moisture (and thus mold), and you have more things that might become soiled and result in optical impairment...

Last edited by Dave Blackhurst; February 10th, 2014 at 07:16 AM. Reason: Looked at second video....
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Old February 10th, 2014, 07:03 AM   #14
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

I think you need to try a different lens before sending things off for repairs. Granted the problem does not look like a typical dirty sensor or a damaged sensor, but based on the first video I still would not rule it out. It's a lot easier to troubleshoot if you have a second camera and a second lens to mix and match.

I'm glad you are finding the book helpful! Thanks for the feedback.
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Old February 10th, 2014, 11:57 AM   #15
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Re: blue spot!!.. please take a look and tell me what do you think!!

Thank you all for your comments.
Dave,no hood or flags on lens! that's why the flare is so strong and evident even when am not pointing at the sun!! and thank you for taking the time to write a detailed post, that's was helpful.

Noa Put
"I"m with Simon that you should send the camera in for a checkup."
Noa, you intended lens! not camera?! I imagine! or not?

I will definitely do a test with different lenses and two different cameras.
I will post back the results and hope it have nothing to do with sensor as you all say, and I think you're right about that but will feel better only after the test :)
Thanks again everybody for taking the time to look at the video and sharing your thoughts.
regards
Samer
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