PXW-Z450 demo footage - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts

Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 8th, 2017, 12:33 AM   #16
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, Califonia
Posts: 1,525
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald McPherson View Post
What is the difference between SD, HD and now UHD glass? Like HDMI cables digital is digital but do the dear ones improve quality maybe not.
MTF I believe. First gen "increased resolution" glass is typically not any better than the latest "last generation" glass. The first generation (Canon HJ15x8BIRS for instance) HD glass if put on a current HD camera, looks like crap, same as an old SD version...blue fringing on highlights, red/green chromatic abberations...icky.

paul
Paul Anderegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2017, 08:18 PM   #17
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,639
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Lau View Post
Ok, after a bit of further reading into this model ... I understand there is currently no way to get live QFHD out of this product at this point?
I can't say that I tested 4K output when I had my hands on the Z450, but the operation manual I have says that ir is possible via the SDI connectors (on pages 32-33).

"38402160 P output in 3G-SDI Dual Link (2-Sample Interleave Division) format."

it appears to be functional in 60P, 29.97P, 23.98P, 25P, and 50P. But as far as I can see, there is no 4K output at all via HDMI.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2017, 08:22 PM   #18
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,639
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald McPherson View Post
What is the difference between SD, HD and now UHD glass?
The Fujinon product managers at NAB told me that there is very little difference between HD and UHD glass at the center. But you may see some aberation, vignetting, or softness around the edges of HD glass on a 4K sensor. I told them thank you, you just saved me a step in post! :-)
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2017, 12:06 AM   #19
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Aberdeen Scotland
Posts: 636
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

SD glass must be of poor quality then. I feel sorry for all those people using vintage glass. ;-)
__________________
A little knowledge goes a long way but not long enough.
Donald McPherson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2017, 12:42 AM   #20
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, Califonia
Posts: 1,525
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

You can make SD glass look reasonbly good, and resolve pretty 1080p footage, but you would want to ensure you were irised down a bit and not shooting wide open. Also the 2x extenders on SD glass are horrible and unusable. The thing you will see using SD glass on HD cameras, is mostly wider aperature red/green chroma edges in things that are not perfectly in focus, like putting an old manual focus 50mm Nikkor lens on an A7SII.

Paul
Paul Anderegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2017, 03:14 AM   #21
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,639
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald McPherson View Post
SD glass must be of poor quality then. I feel sorry for all those people using vintage glass. ;-)
Using a "vintage" SLR or cinema lens is quite a bit different that using an old standard definition ENG zoom. I still own two ENG lenses that used to be workhorses on my Betacams but I'd never use them on a modern HD or 4K camcorder. I don't feel sorry for those people who can't see the difference, I just wonder why they are so blind.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2017, 03:56 PM   #22
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 46
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

Since we've kinda gone off about the use of SD lenses ... I do this; and so what I didn't like about the XA16x8A kit lenses that Sony supplies with the PMW/PXW 2/3" is that although it's "HD Rated" - everything is emulated in electronics and it partially relies on communication with the camera to operate correctly - The focus ring is a narrow rotary encoder (even if you click it backwards into the 'manual' position), the parfocal operation, and the aberration correction are all done electronically so if you unplug that 12-pin connector, you'll find that nothing works at all.

At least going "back" to a later model SD lens (this is around the time the vendors started added the "widescreen" labeling and ratio converters to them) it's all implemented in the lens itself: focus is mechanically coupled, and you can use it (without power zoom or iris) even unplugged... which is the way I think people expect ENG lenses to work. So perhaps I traded off some optical acuity and electronic aberration correction support for better ergonomics and a fast zoom servo.

To have all of the above would be nice, but it's still pricey today - and we were discussing really whether it's worth the multi-kilobuck premium here - is it something that people will really truly appreciate when they see images resolved through a HD/UHD lens that will make that all worth it? Moreover, even if I were in the used market for these ... are people or organizations even buying many of these new for there to even be much of a second-hand market later? Chatting with the sales reps at the few broadcast dealers around here (Western Canada), none of them have moved a Z450 since it has been available for sale. They sell HDC4300s to the production truck market however - but from the sounds of it, the customers that demand 4K/QFHD capability from Sony aren't really married to the 2/3" mount or traditional form factor requirement and are more willing to consider FS7 or F5/F55 models or any of the fixed package camcorder options. To me I love the backwards compatibility and the fact that any of this parts swap even works - not only the lens mount but things like wireless slot-in receivers, battery packs, and viewfinders that all have some level of forwards and backwards compatibility across generations so you can build and upgrade your kit piecemeal without needing to assemble "rigs" with velcro-attached accessories or cheese plates and such.

I had a chance to compare the A18x7.6 to a HA18x7.6 for example (which although both older models now, seems to be the logical successor) and found very little discernible difference and if that, only on test charts. Physically both were identical on the outside apart from the HD badging.

Also back to the 4K output over SDI with my earlier question - it looks like it is in fact possible, and there is equipment that supports the multi-link connection.
Vislink published a blog and twitter post showing their live microwave transmitter in action and, it appears that all the output connectors have to be used. (Also that doesn't look like a UHD rated lens either.)

https://www.vislink.com/a-testing-day/
https://twitter.com/Vislink/status/887683293805760512
Kevin Lau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2017, 11:43 PM   #23
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, Califonia
Posts: 1,525
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

For those interested, Sony specs the Z450 at f10/11@2000 NTSC/PAL, vs the f12/f13@2000 NTSC/PAL of the 3MOS X400 sensor.

Paul
Paul Anderegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2018, 07:02 PM   #24
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, Califonia
Posts: 1,525
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

Doug, on the Z450, did you use "normal" viewfinder peaking? I am trying to confirm if the new Z280 has detail edge sharpening peaking mode, and the engineer at NAB I spoke with on the phone could only say that it has the same peaking "as the Z450".

Paul
Paul Anderegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2018, 08:12 AM   #25
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,639
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

Hi Paul,

Was that you speaking to a Sony guy on the phone yesterday ( BTW, I don't think he is an engineer) while he was looking at peaking on the new Z280? I was standing right next to him and I really wanted take the phone and speak directly to whomever was on the other end. Was that you?

Anyway, I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here right now, but yes, the Z280 has "normal" peaking with all the standard controls for customizing it that you'd expect to find on any pro camera from Sony. It works great and there is nothing about it that I would change even if I had the power to do so. It looks great, is very subtle if you want it to be, and has never failed me. Perfect. It's the same peaking as is used on the Z450 and even the Z190 with the exact same menu controls. Both of these two new cameras have their roots in the XDCAM family so are chock full of professional features that are not found on some other cameras that have come out of Sony's prosumer NXCAM line.

Of course, if someone wants to use that horrid "colored" peaking mode, then they can do turn that on instead, but I'd seriously question their sanity for doing so.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

Last edited by Doug Jensen; April 10th, 2018 at 08:55 AM.
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2018, 03:10 PM   #26
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 46
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

It used to be the telltale between the VF detail-circuit based peaking and the lower resolution 'coloured' peaking (which can also be set to white, and is the only type available on the consumer models) was that the edges of the superimposed text also had peaking applied to it, whereas the peaking generated in-camera happens before the super text. Is that still the case on these brand new models?
Kevin Lau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2018, 05:36 PM   #27
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, Califonia
Posts: 1,525
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

Yes Doug, that was me! :-D

Doug, do you think a 1/2" 4K 3MOS PXW-Z320 sensor block could outperform a single 2/3" 4K sensor?

Paul
Paul Anderegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2018, 07:57 PM   #28
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,639
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

I can't comment on what might be possible, but I can tell you that the 1/2" 4K 3-CMOS PXW-Z280 sensor block does not outperform the single 2/3" 4K sensor on the Z450. The Z280 has a very nice image, but it is not in the same league as the Z450.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2018, 08:20 PM   #29
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, Califonia
Posts: 1,525
Re: PXW-Z450 demo footage

The 1" Sony sensor cameras have never looked amazingly great to me...my 3MOS X180 in HD looked better than my X70 and Z150, even in 4K, so I find it so surprising what Sony seems to have been able to accomplish with the smaller sensor in the Z450. Perhaps the lens is the huge difference, maybe also Sony throws Cinealta color science at the more expensive camera.

Paul
Paul Anderegg is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Adorama
(800) 223-2500
New York, NY

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Texas Media Systems
(512) 440-1400
Austin, TX

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

VideoGuys
(800) 323-2325
Mineola, NY

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:45 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2018 The Digital Video Information Network