Editing XD Cam HD

[Henry Ramos]

Good to meet you David. I work at a 24 hr cable news station and we're transitioning from a DVCPro house to XDCAM HD. It's a pretty big deal for alotta cameras. The plan is to gain the ability to edit NLE in the field and eventually FTP stories back to the station without needing a live truck. How bout you?

[David Mintzer]

Henry---I'm run a small production company--We primarily do corporate and documentary work.

[John Godwin]

I just joined this forum and I'm expecting to get a 330 asap...hopefully in the next week or two.

I've edited with (what is now Avid) Liquid for several years. It works very well with xdcam and supposedly now with xdcam HD. I'll be finding out how well also in the very near future.

Best,
John

[David Mintzer]

Nice to have you aboard---is Avid claiming that Liquid will edit XCAM HD or is part of some future feature.

[John Godwin]

I have version 7.1 of liquid. Liquid uses a function called X-receive, which lets you look at the files on the xdcam and import them (I think in the native format - even my old silver system has used mpeg-2 for years). I read in an Avid workflow document that Liquid also supports the use of proxies. Here's what they say:

http://www.avid.com/products/liquid/techspecs.asp

Avid Liquid Tech Specs
New in version 7.1
XDCAM HD & IMX support
Export presets for Flash video (FLV, Sorenson H.263), Sony PSP, Apple iPod
JVC-ProHD Rec to Tape
Magic Bullet Movie Looks (55 looks)
DVD export: Auto-loop playback for single stream without a menu
Render Engine detects read/write status of Render Drive
Source viewer audio output routing in audio editor
Record to tape tool/stripe tape loads the current sequence
JVC-ProHD-metadata-stream
New in version 7
Integrated SmartSound support
44KHz bundled content.
Native playback of WM9, DivX 5 & MPEG-4
Native playback of muxed audio/video without the need to demux in advance: DV AVI, WM9, MPEG PS, DivX5, MJPEG AVI
“EZ capture” - separate tool to capture muxed files to a user-specified file location. IEEE1394 device control only. Includes content based scene detection. Capture formats: MPEG2 (DVD/SVCD), MPEG1 VCD preset, DV to MPEG, DV, HDV, DivX5
Single monitor project layout for optimized single screen display
RT linear timewarp, (must be the first effect on source)
Improved and extended export: more formats & presets, easier unified UI additionally supporting DivX 5, MPEG 4, Real, etc
RT Image Stabilizer
Commotion Clip FX (56 effects)
Blurs and Sharpen: Blur, Channel Blur, Edge Blur EZ, Edge Blur, Motion Blur, Radial Blur, Sharpen, Super Blur, Unsharpen Mask
Channel: Shift Channels
Color Correct: Color Balance HLS, Color Balance RGB, Color Map, Replace Color, Tint
Distort: Corner Pin, Hall of Mirrors, Mirage, Turbulence, Turbulence EZ, Turbulent Edges
Image Control: Brightness and Contrast, Invert, Levels, Posterize, Threshold
Keying: BlueScreen Key, Color Key, GreenScreen Key, LumiKey, Smooth Screen, Spill Killer, Spill Killer EZ
Matte: Edge Finder, Edge Finder EZ, Matte Feather, Matte Feather EZ, Matte Feather Sharp
Noise: Channel Noise, Median, MinMax, Noise
Particles : Fractal Clouds, Fractal Fire, Fractal Tunnel
Stylize : Alpha Ramp, Drop Shadow, Emboss, Framer, Grunge, Mosaic, Real Shadows, Video Feedback
Video: Broadcast Safe Colors, Field Blend, Field Swap
New RT effects: DreamGlow, Soften, DuoChrome, Lighting, RGB Color Balance, White Balance, Turbulent Edges
Studio 10 project import (Studio 9 projects must be converted to 10 first)
SD output of HD timelines with RT downcovert on Avid Liquid Pro breakout box - requires latest graphics driver (ATI catalyst 5/10)
Fullscreen monitoring on 2nd DVI head (monitors must be identical resolution)
Timecode display in separate sizeable floating window
WMV (XPM) surround 5.1 export
Scaling size and aspect in clip properties
Capture from JVC GY-HD 100 with 720/25p (no 24p or rec to tape support)
Separate insert buttons for Overwrite/Filmstyle
Clean up (trash can functions in project menu)
“Broadcast Option” features included in all products – MXF support, P2 support, XDCAM support

There's more but it made the post too long.

[David Mintzer]

Thanks, that was very informative.

[John Godwin]

I received the 330 today and have been playing with it all day. I'm using a standard lens until I can get an HD lens, but even the standard def lens looks quite good, to me.

For what it's worth, I did get some footage into Avid Liquid and it will play back in real time and looks excellent. Trying to do any effects bogs things down. This is on a pretty powerful computer, but not as good as the one I'm having upgraded for the Liquid Chrome I'm purchasing, which is a dedicated boardset with a much more professional i/o box, with everything including HD-SDI. (Taking in downcoverted to dvcam files thru the firewire worked perfectly, and editing those is a snap.)

The main issue for me is, not having a HD recorder of any type, getting the output onto something useful. I'm assuming I can export the edited show (which isn't an issue as they isn't anything I'm doing in HD just yet) in one of several formats to a hard drive and take that to a local post/dub house and have it laid to HDcam or whatever.

[Brian Bang Jensen]

Got my F330
Made a test shot and imported the mxf file to my pc trough FAM (file access mode)
The only way I can import files in HD quality.
If I chose to use DV out, the camera will downconvert to DVCAM, and it can not be changed in the menu, like on the XL-H1

Despite Sony and Canopus claims, that EDIUS broadcast, supports XDCAM HD, there is no way Edius will accept the mxf file.

In fact I asked Canopus support this question, before I upgraded my software.
“I am buying a Sony PDW-F330 XDCAM HD camcorder.
If I upgrade my EDIUS pro3 to broadcast, will my system support XDCAM HD format? If broadcast does not support XDCAM HD, at the moment, when will it be available? “

And got this answer.
“Dear customer,
The Edius Broadcast option does support XDCAM HD.
Regards
Canopus Technical Support Team
Canopus UK”

Is there other users on this board, using Edius broadcast, and have had success editing mxf files, or maybe someone knows a trick getting around my problem?

By the way, got the cam. with the standard canon lens. So far I am happy with it. Not mutch CA, despite I tried to provoke it.
Much better than the H1 and lightyears better than the HD100!

[Brian Bang Jensen]

I have mailed Canopus about my problems importing XDCAM HD mxf files into Edius broadcast.
It turns out that the person who answered my previous question about the compatibility, had misunderstood the question, he thought the question was regarding the new Edius4 version….
So here is the new answer from Canopus.

“There has been a misunderstanding on this as my colleague thought I was asking about the new Edius 4 Broadcast option. Edius Pro 3 does not support XDCAM HD but the new version will.”

Maybe I will get a free upgrade to version 4!

In the meantime, I have a project to deliver.
That meant I had to find another software. The choice was Avid Liquid 7
So I have ordered, received installed and downloaded all the latest servicepacks.

And it works, simple as that.
Download the files from the camera trough FAM.
Import the files into your Avid project, and treat them like any other media files!

So what’s the fuss, a cheap PC based NLE can do the work….

Now I see if I get so happy with Avid, that I dump Canopus.

One thing though, bothers me about Avid, is the coloursampling on the timeline.
Canopus Will do 4:2:2 at a bitrate up to 270mbit/sek. I know my camera only records in 4:2:0,
But my graphics, titles, stills and transitions will be 4:2:2….

Avid is 4:2:0 at a bitrate unknown to me, or uncompressed, a little to heavy for my PC!

Now I will se what the future brings. For now, my problems is solved.

[John Godwin]

Brian,

I've used Liquid for years, since FAST created it, and if I can help you in any way with the software I'll be happy to try. It's a highly underrated piece of software.

I am very curious what settings you're using. I've done the same thing you describe just this week, for the first time, and it works but, as I said in a previous post, it slows down the computer dramatically. There's a new service pack I expect to install this weekend that's supposed to speed things up a bit...it's extremely fast and stable in standard def but xdcam HD is a bit of a struggle.

Best,
John

[Brian Bang Jensen]

Now I have tried to edit a HD project, with Avid Liqued7.
Yes Avid is indeed slow, actually it was so slow, that I gave up and used it only for transferring the HD files to HDV2 1080 50i, under the process the files kept its 35mbit/sek bitrate. These files I could then import into Edius Broadcast. In Edius the speed was not significant slower than editing in SD, the only issue was, if I would like to play back the timeline, I had to the render the portions with multiply tracks and effects.
So the bottom line is, if Avid does not solve the speed problem, I would stick with Canopus.
There is no way I can use a slow program, who is going to pay for the extra time it takes to edit? I make corporate movies and my clients pay for the hours I use, if the program is slow, I have to sit by the computer longer, for free, and then missing another job……
I have had a confirmation that I am going to receive an upgrade to Broadcast4 for free.
Canopus in England expects the new version to arrive in a month or so and it will be able to import the MXF HD files directly to the timeline.

[Bob Grant]

The way to edit XDCAM is to edit the mpeg-4 proxies, then the system retrieves the full res bits that it needs to do a full res render. Only system I've seen this done on is Xpri, pretty expensive but it was very fast to work with and all you need to route the video is a standard office network.

[John Godwin]

Liquid is slow but liquid chrome is supposed to be faster, and has HD-SDI I/O. (I actually wonder if any purely software editor is going to be easily able to handle the load until computers and processors get even faster.) I have a fairly fast system and it will handle a simple edit reasonably well. I frequently do complex timelines with lots of layering and that would not be easy at all, but cuts & dissolves, some supers and the audio mix works.

Anyway, I have tried using the proxies and that would work, except that the re-importing into liquid from the proxies after editing is currently broken (that from Avid) and should be fixed in the next point release, they say.

Just as a general note - everyone who sees the HD images from the 330 is drooling. It leads to extra time to clean up the puddles, but it's helping move some people in the HD direction, which is what I was hoping.

Best,
John

[Alister Chapman]

According to the Avid rep I spoke to today Avid Xpress Pro 5.5 will support HD Mpeg MXF's from the F350. 5.5 is due to be released sometime in the next week or so.

If this is true then users should be able to transcode to DNxHD and mix and match with other material from other sources. Once edited you could take you finished project to an Avid house with HDSDI for final output to HDCAM or whatever.

[Alister Chapman]

Spoke to a Sony rep today and he told me that sony have written a plug-in for FCP that allows users to browse XDCAM disks and import both proxies and Mpegs within FCP. The plug-in is due to be released by the end of the month.