Sony XDCAM HD -- various topics at DVinfo.net

Thomas Smet · April 13th, 2006, 08:04 AM

Does anybody have any of the specs on the compression levels of XDCAM HD?

I know there is 18mb, 25mb and 35 mb and that 18 and 35 are variable bitrate. What other details are there including level and profile, is 35 the max or average, is 18 the max or average, 1440 or 1920, GOP structure and finally what makes the MXF file different from SD XDCAM.

Thanks guys.

Michael Devlin · April 13th, 2006, 08:51 AM

The best source of info on XDCAM is of course the Sony site.
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...ot/index.shtml

The XDCAM HD brochure on that site has some info. They say it is "MPEG HD" codec, based on "MPEG-2 MP@HL" sampling rate of 4:2:0 with spacial resolution of 1440x1080, with four channels of 16-bit 48kHz audio.

Chris Hurd · April 14th, 2006, 11:25 PM

"For those using Sony's F900 or F950 HD cameras there is a program available to allow the generation of user defined profile curves, enabling the camera to be set to capture images in a more 'filmic' way."

http://www.digitalpraxis.net/dpsonycurves.html

Simon Wyndham · April 15th, 2006, 05:04 PM

Actually those cine curves are very similar to the 4 cine curves built into the PDW-3xxx cameras. The STD gamma in them looks to be the ITU-709 curve that was shown in that link.

I've looked closer at the gamma curves built into the new XDCAM HD cameras. It seems that some of the gamma curves go up to 110%. Cine 2 stays below 100.

Quite interesting really. I'd love to see how these compare with the filmlike curves of the Panny cameras.

Alister Chapman · August 22nd, 2006, 12:36 PM

OK I spent ages scratching my head trying to work out why I could not copy HD XDCAM files back to my camera. I was assured that it would work but I could not get anything to work. Anyway it's really simple BUT you must name the files correctly. The first file on the disc must be C0001.MXF which must be in capitals!! Each file should be sequentially numbered. I belive there is a limit of around 250 clips on a disk. To copy a compatible MXF from your computer to a deck you must have the PDZ1 software and drivers installed. Plug in the camera/deck and simply drag your files from the hard drive to the XDCAM disc icon, no need to open the disk or select the clips folder, just drag and drop to the icon. The decks automaticaly create a proxy for each file you copy onto the disk.. cool!

Simon Wyndham · August 22nd, 2006, 06:47 PM

Yep. It is amazing how quickly the camera or deck can create those proxy files automatically.

Yet more goodness is to come however :-)

Matthew Ernest Adams · October 18th, 2006, 07:37 PM

I see mentions of using the FILM gamma pre-sets and was wondering about how a custom set-up (paint my own USER file) is affected by the gamma presets?

It looks to me that if you have painted the camera yourself and then choose one of the preset gamma matrices, it doesn't use the USER file as a gauge, it just changes everything in the paint files and leaves the viewfinder, assignables and everything not "look" related the same ... could be wrong, I don't have an HD scope, just SD.

I find I can set my knee and gamma to produce a more dynamic image than any of the FILM matrices. I was told those matrices were just reproductions of different film stock and not really "prime" setups for the 350 or 330.

Andy Walton · October 20th, 2006, 11:04 AM

Anyone who needs an adaptor may want to speak to Mike Tapa (ex optex), he is making an adaptor for me for £235 plus vat, its being made from the original optex design. it will take 2-3 weeks but he is planning to have a couple extra made up for stock. I have no financial benefit from any orders arising from this thread

http://www.mtfservices.com/index.html is his website

Andy

Bill Weaver · October 21st, 2006, 09:27 AM

Do detail, master gamma, etc have any affect on the 330, 350 if you have selected one on the gamma presets?

Simon Wyndham · October 21st, 2006, 10:16 AM

Yes they do.

Rob Stiff · October 27th, 2006, 10:40 PM

Has anyone with success done quick proxie file downloads,
edited in Final Cut then by that EDL downloaded the parts of
the needed HD clips without having to dowload the entire
Disc's HD Footage?

I am having some trouble putting it all together...?

Again, the goal is:
1) Download the proxies to the Apple running FCP.
2) Edit the proxies (multicam edits).
3) Take my editing timeline and be able to capture
parts of the clips from the XDCAM Disc(s) that contains
the related HD video.
4) Have a newtimeline in FCP with a matching edit in HD
same as my low res proxie edited timeline.

Nate Weaver · October 28th, 2006, 08:47 AM

I've played with it. Here's the issues:

1-FC doesn't like the audio format of the proxys AT ALL. It doesn't like the audio codec, which is an odd A-law 8bit 32khz (if a remember right, I'm prob off), nor does it like the channel config, which is 4 stereo channels.

It's the audio channels that keep FCP from playing the clips at all. If you remove the last 3 stereo channels in Quicktime Pro, you can get the clips to play in FCP in the viewer at least.

2-Video codec is MPEG4, which FCP doesn't deal with so well either. Making a timeline of MPEG 4 with identical pixel dimensions and framerate doesn't work for some reason without rendering, I'm guessing because there's a few flavors of MPEG4.

Somebody on another board suggested doing the audio fix, then editing in a Offline RT HD preset timeline. You get orange renderbars, but at least the framerate is full and you can cut.

With the new transfer software, you can right click on clip icon and "Save Proxy to Quicktime movie"...all it does is take your proxy and save it to desktop with the clip name, which is important. I just ran Compressor on it to make it Offline RT HD, and while it takes time, of course it works.

You could even automate the process by making the folder you dump the proxys to a watch folder, and everything that goes into it would be converted in the BG.

Andy Walton · November 2nd, 2006, 03:55 AM

The new 4.1 upgrade to Edius broadcast has been released and fully supports XDCAM HD inc all data rates and proxy editing. I have beta tested for the last month (limited time by the amount of location work I've been doing) and all seems very stable and smooth

Andy

Thierry Humeau · November 6th, 2006, 04:03 PM

Today, I had to dub via HD-SDI a XDCAM HD disc shot in 1080p 23.98. I used a F350 as a player and a F70 as recorder. I wanted the recorded disc to also be recorded at 23.98 but the camera seem to only want to send 1080i 59.94 (23.98 w/pulldown) through its HD-SDI output.

I did not find any setting to change that, it seems like pulldown (PD) is added by default on everything shot at 23.98 and sent to the camera's SD-HDI output.

I could not clone the disc using the PDZ-1 in FAM mode because I needed to change the TC on the dub. For some reason, the TC was reset 6 times on the shot disc and I needed the dub to have continous TC.

Am I missing something?

Thierry.

Gerson Becker · November 7th, 2006, 07:48 AM

Hi guys,
Does anyone using Vegas 7 with DeckLink HD Extreme or DeckLink HD Pro 4:4:4 PCIe and importing MXF files?
Are you capable to see the image through the component HD output, in native resolution?
Looking for a board solution to edit and see in realtime in a big LCD monitor.
But without the no compressed related problems, like huge storage.
Thanks.

Gérson

April 13th, 2006, 08:04 AM	#1
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Sony XDCAM HD -- various topics Does anybody have any of the specs on the compression levels of XDCAM HD? I know there is 18mb, 25mb and 35 mb and that 18 and 35 are variable bitrate. What other details are there including level and profile, is 35 the max or average, is 18 the max or average, 1440 or 1920, GOP structure and finally what makes the MXF file different from SD XDCAM. Thanks guys.

April 13th, 2006, 08:51 AM	#2
Michael Devlin Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Zephyr Cove, NV & Anchorage, AK Posts: 82	The best source of info on XDCAM is of course the Sony site. http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...ot/index.shtml The XDCAM HD brochure on that site has some info. They say it is "MPEG HD" codec, based on "MPEG-2 MP@HL" sampling rate of 4:2:0 with spacial resolution of 1440x1080, with four channels of 16-bit 48kHz audio. __________________ Mike Devlin www.dangerouspassage.com

April 14th, 2006, 11:25 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Sony CVP FileEditor Curves "For those using Sony's F900 or F950 HD cameras there is a program available to allow the generation of user defined profile curves, enabling the camera to be set to capture images in a more 'filmic' way." http://www.digitalpraxis.net/dpsonycurves.html __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 22nd, 2006, 12:36 PM	#5
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	XDCAM file transfer to camera. File naming. OK I spent ages scratching my head trying to work out why I could not copy HD XDCAM files back to my camera. I was assured that it would work but I could not get anything to work. Anyway it's really simple BUT you must name the files correctly. The first file on the disc must be C0001.MXF which must be in capitals!! Each file should be sequentially numbered. I belive there is a limit of around 250 clips on a disk. To copy a compatible MXF from your computer to a deck you must have the PDZ1 software and drivers installed. Plug in the camera/deck and simply drag your files from the hard drive to the XDCAM disc icon, no need to open the disk or select the clips folder, just drag and drop to the icon. The decks automaticaly create a proxy for each file you copy onto the disk.. cool! __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

October 18th, 2006, 07:37 PM	#7
Matthew Ernest Adams Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 54	Gamma settings or custom? I see mentions of using the FILM gamma pre-sets and was wondering about how a custom set-up (paint my own USER file) is affected by the gamma presets? It looks to me that if you have painted the camera yourself and then choose one of the preset gamma matrices, it doesn't use the USER file as a gauge, it just changes everything in the paint files and leaves the viewfinder, assignables and everything not "look" related the same ... could be wrong, I don't have an HD scope, just SD. I find I can set my knee and gamma to produce a more dynamic image than any of the FILM matrices. I was told those matrices were just reproductions of different film stock and not really "prime" setups for the 350 or 330.

April 15th, 2006, 05:04 PM	#4
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Actually those cine curves are very similar to the 4 cine curves built into the PDW-3xxx cameras. The STD gamma in them looks to be the ITU-709 curve that was shown in that link. I've looked closer at the gamma curves built into the new XDCAM HD cameras. It seems that some of the gamma curves go up to 110%. Cine 2 stays below 100. Quite interesting really. I'd love to see how these compare with the filmlike curves of the Panny cameras.

August 22nd, 2006, 06:47 PM	#6
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Yep. It is amazing how quickly the camera or deck can create those proxy files automatically. Yet more goodness is to come however :-)

October 20th, 2006, 11:04 AM	#8
Andy Walton New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 21	1/2 to B4 adaptor Anyone who needs an adaptor may want to speak to Mike Tapa (ex optex), he is making an adaptor for me for £235 plus vat, its being made from the original optex design. it will take 2-3 weeks but he is planning to have a couple extra made up for stock. I have no financial benefit from any orders arising from this thread http://www.mtfservices.com/index.html is his website Andy

October 21st, 2006, 09:27 AM	#9
Bill Weaver Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Victoria,BC Posts: 124	Settings question Do detail, master gamma, etc have any affect on the 330, 350 if you have selected one on the gamma presets? __________________ Bill Weaver Across Borders Media / Media that Matters

October 21st, 2006, 10:16 AM	#10
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Yes they do.

October 27th, 2006, 10:40 PM	#11
Rob Stiff Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 173	Proxie Clips Edit To Full HD Video In FCP Has anyone with success done quick proxie file downloads, edited in Final Cut then by that EDL downloaded the parts of the needed HD clips without having to dowload the entire Disc's HD Footage? I am having some trouble putting it all together...? Again, the goal is: 1) Download the proxies to the Apple running FCP. 2) Edit the proxies (multicam edits). 3) Take my editing timeline and be able to capture parts of the clips from the XDCAM Disc(s) that contains the related HD video. 4) Have a newtimeline in FCP with a matching edit in HD same as my low res proxie edited timeline.

October 28th, 2006, 08:47 AM	#12
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	I've played with it. Here's the issues: 1-FC doesn't like the audio format of the proxys AT ALL. It doesn't like the audio codec, which is an odd A-law 8bit 32khz (if a remember right, I'm prob off), nor does it like the channel config, which is 4 stereo channels. It's the audio channels that keep FCP from playing the clips at all. If you remove the last 3 stereo channels in Quicktime Pro, you can get the clips to play in FCP in the viewer at least. 2-Video codec is MPEG4, which FCP doesn't deal with so well either. Making a timeline of MPEG 4 with identical pixel dimensions and framerate doesn't work for some reason without rendering, I'm guessing because there's a few flavors of MPEG4. Somebody on another board suggested doing the audio fix, then editing in a Offline RT HD preset timeline. You get orange renderbars, but at least the framerate is full and you can cut. With the new transfer software, you can right click on clip icon and "Save Proxy to Quicktime movie"...all it does is take your proxy and save it to desktop with the clip name, which is important. I just ran Compressor on it to make it Offline RT HD, and while it takes time, of course it works. You could even automate the process by making the folder you dump the proxys to a watch folder, and everything that goes into it would be converted in the BG. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

November 2nd, 2006, 03:55 AM	#13
Andy Walton New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 21	Edius Broadcast supports XDCAM HD The new 4.1 upgrade to Edius broadcast has been released and fully supports XDCAM HD inc all data rates and proxy editing. I have beta tested for the last month (limited time by the amount of location work I've been doing) and all seems very stable and smooth Andy

November 6th, 2006, 04:03 PM	#14
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	Outputing 1080 23.98 via HD-SDI on a F350 Today, I had to dub via HD-SDI a XDCAM HD disc shot in 1080p 23.98. I used a F350 as a player and a F70 as recorder. I wanted the recorded disc to also be recorded at 23.98 but the camera seem to only want to send 1080i 59.94 (23.98 w/pulldown) through its HD-SDI output. I did not find any setting to change that, it seems like pulldown (PD) is added by default on everything shot at 23.98 and sent to the camera's SD-HDI output. I could not clone the disc using the PDZ-1 in FAM mode because I needed to change the TC on the dub. For some reason, the TC was reset 6 times on the shot disc and I needed the dub to have continous TC. Am I missing something? Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

November 7th, 2006, 07:48 AM	#15
Gerson Becker Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Porto Alegre - Brasil Posts: 63	Vegas and Decklink Hi guys, Does anyone using Vegas 7 with DeckLink HD Extreme or DeckLink HD Pro 4:4:4 PCIe and importing MXF files? Are you capable to see the image through the component HD output, in native resolution? Looking for a board solution to edit and see in realtime in a big LCD monitor. But without the no compressed related problems, like huge storage. Thanks. Gérson