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Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
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Old April 16th, 2006, 12:46 PM   #1
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XDcam HD frame rate conundrum for multi format output

Hey all
I am going to be editing a feature, starting in May.
the intended distribution for it is for SD TV (BOTH NTSC and PAL), SD DVD, FILM (very possibly) HD DVD/BluRay (sorta possible later on)
Shooting in 1080i with the F350
using FCP 5.0.4 with a Decklink Multibridge extreme
recording sound in camera

soo
on to the fun stuff
never used XDCAM HD before (assuming HD SDI capture from either the camera or deck)
never done somthing going to multiple formats for output
so the DOP (who hasn't used XDCAM before) asked what frame rate would be the easiest for me to deal with while still maintaining that coveted film look)

from what a Sony rep told me while the camera records 23.98 it outputs it over HD-SDI as 60i from either the camera or the deck

anyone have any idea it would be great
THANKS
DAVE from MoviesRock in Toronto
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Old April 16th, 2006, 02:02 PM   #2
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David,
The most coveted film look rate is 23.98 in video. Even though 30 has more a film like feel than 60i it is not usually recommended for filmout since the 30 path to 23.98 is not as well traveled. Many people have done 60i to 23.98 successfully but you quite don't see what it will look like until you process it. If you have a film out supplier you should check with them what they recommend.
Another major question you should have is how you are going to edit the project in FCP. The XDCAM codec at the higher level is not supported natively in FCP yet. (We will know more at NAB). Are you planning to edit in uncompressed or DVCPRO HD etc? The SDI out from the camera is derived from the compressed XDCAM so it is not necessarily better than the doing the conversion in the computer. I don't know how the SDI out of the deck looks but it should be similar to the camera. The files can be transfered over ethernet but you might not be able to use them as they are in FCP.
Anyway you should test all this stuff out before you make a decision how to proceed since you will one of the first people to actually go through the process and expect to deliver a product. You might find you don't want to edit in FCP for this project or maybe it will be fine. HTH
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Old April 16th, 2006, 03:37 PM   #3
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>The most coveted film look rate is 23.98 in video. . . .it is not usually recommended for filmout since the 30 path to 23.98 is not as well traveled. . . a film out supplier you should check with them.

gotcha so shooting in 23.98 would be the best offerning me the most options for posting

>Another major question you should have is how you are going to edit the project in FCP. The XDCAM codec at the higher level is not supported natively in FCP yet. (We will know more at NAB). Are you planning to edit in uncompressed or DVCPRO HD etc?

I plan on capturing via HDSDI to either uncompressed 8 bit (if I do get nuff HDD space and they don't shoot ton's of extra footage) or what I will most likely do is capture to photoJPG 75% for "offline" and recapture it at uncompressed 8bit when I "online" it

>The SDI out from the camera is derived from the compressed XDCAM so it is not necessarily better than the doing the conversion in the computer. . . .The files can be transfered over ethernet but you might not be able to use them as they are in FCP.

HMM so I could transfer the M2T's to my raid then use MPEGSTREAM CLIP to convert them right? rather then capture over SDI? From what a Sony rep told me and from what I have been reading here on the forum if you output over the SDI it will resample the color to 4:2:2 rather then 4:2:0

>Anyway you should test all this stuff out before you make a decision how to proceed since you will one of the first people to actually go through the process and expect to deliver a product. You might find you don't want to edit in FCP for this project or maybe it will be fine.

trouble is I am leaving for NAB on Tuesday (driving down) and Production will be starting on the 21st (for 3 days) then same for the following 3 weekends (12 shooting days in total)
I will be getting back for the last 2 shooting sets at most
and need to fiqure this out before I go


ah well
thinking shooting in 23.98 now

Thanks Man

DAVE at MoviesRock in Toronto
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Old April 16th, 2006, 04:00 PM   #4
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When the XDCAM HD is output over SDI, does the 24p get embedded with 3:2 pulldown over 1080i60, or can the deck output 23.98psf like a HDCAM deck? What I'm concerned about SDI capture is having to remove pulldown.

Looking at the file transfer option from disk, anyone tried getting it working on the mac with FCP? If you can get at the m2t, you can use MPEG Streamclip to convert to something nice to edit with.

Graeme
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Old April 17th, 2006, 01:57 PM   #5
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You could always shoot 25P. That way most of the pull up/padding issues go away. Edit 25P then do a 4% slow down for the 24P ouputs, 25P is good for PAL distribution. If you stick to 25Mb then you should have maximum file compatibility. As has been said we'll have to wait and see when 35MB files will be supported.
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Old April 18th, 2006, 08:43 AM   #6
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more frustrations

OK change in plans

audio guy wants to shoot with a 744T NOT connected to the camera at all

SOOO
if we are shooting in 23.98 would it not be better for the audio to be recorded in that frame rate as well?

the 744T has adjustable frame rate's from 23.976, 24, 25, 29.97DF, 29.97ND, 30DF, 30ND;

looking at using BWF2XML to convert the BWF's to a format that FCP can use

DAVE
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