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Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
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Old December 8th, 2006, 01:46 PM   #1
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cost of xdcam hd

Hi guys,
My boss is about to upgrade his cameras. First we were looking at Sony's 2/3' DSR 450 and they seem really nice. We then started thinking "what about xdcam?". I've read a few reviews, seen footage and both of us are really keen. The price is a bit higher but my boss was ready to invest in the 330 or 350.
We phoned up a retailer today with a couple of questions such as compatibility with Premiere Pro, what about masters and what are the required pc specs.
I know some of you prefer Mac but we're both used to Premiere.
Anyway, the guy there said Premiere would need a Matrox Axio LE, cost 4500 euros, then a xdcam deck since you can't master back to the camera , another 7000 euros, and our PC system is no longer compatible, we'd need to invest in a HP system (dual opteron, 4gb ram,,,), cost around 12000 euros. This altogether increases the bill by 25000 euros, about $33000.

What I would like to know, does his advice seem right to you? I thought you could transfer from the camera using firewire and could export back to it as well, and what about the "rolls royce system" is that the kind of system you guys use?

Thanks for all your answers
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Old December 8th, 2006, 02:31 PM   #2
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Yeah, that guy is thinking HD using an HDSDI ingest with the high powered system to go with it. It sounds like he either doesn't know much about XDCAM, or wants to oversell you.

You can master back to the disc if the software will let you. FCP does, but I don't know about Premiere Pro. You should seek out advice from Adobe on that.

Using the 35 mbs data rate, you aren't asking the system to handle much more than standard dv at 25 mbs. It might not be a bad idea to invest in a newer CPU and some storage space.

You also have 500mb of storage on the disc for other things like graphics files and text documents (scripts, storyboards, notes, etc). This means you can store your entire project on a disc that can sit on a shelf for the next 50 years.

-gb-
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Old December 8th, 2006, 03:49 PM   #3
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Premeire Pro user here

Alex, I too am a premiere Pro user and also like the XDcam 350. I am going to invest in Cineform software. I am going to use their Prospect System. Side note Cineform says that if enough people out there using the XDCAM they would implement the FAM workflow with their HDlink software or some how. The cost is relatively less expensive then using a Black Magic card or the like because you don't need the hard core raid array like you do for the other kind of cards out there. If you get the Prospect setup you can then hook up an HD CAM deck (that you rent) and put out a ready for delivery format to the station. Cause if you only master back to a disc you still need to get it transferred. If you are stuck on premier like I am this is the only real inexpensive workflow right now. One nice thing about Cineform they rarely charge you for upgrades. So when the FAM workflow for a Prospect system comes out more then likely you won’t even be charged for it. I would suggest that you contact Cineform about the options. They are very easy to talk to and they don't try to sell you their products stand on there own. David Newman is the man to talk to

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=64716&page=2

This is a short thread about Prospect set up
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Old December 9th, 2006, 06:26 AM   #4
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Thanks for your replies.

Should I then change my question to: What are your PC specs that work with XDCAM HD? What cpu, how much ram? What software and/or plugins?
What about storage? We usually shoot in multicam (3) maximum rush time is about 3 hours.

Thanks
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Old December 9th, 2006, 10:17 AM   #5
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Cineform

Alex just check out the cineform requirements and you should be fine. If you go that route.

http://www.cineform.com/products/ProspectHDConfig.htm
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Old December 10th, 2006, 03:53 AM   #6
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You can also use Avid Media composer on a PC or the dark horse Sony Vegas.

Not convinced that prospect, IF it gets XDCAM support is going to be a good option. Sure the Cineform Codec is very good, but one of the real beauties of XDCAM is the ability to ingest the native codec, edit native and export native with no transcoding. Most XDCAM software dosn't even need to re-encode a cuts only edit, so the file you put back on the disk is exactly the same as the file you pull off the disk. With Prospect you would be adding in at least 2 re-compression steps. Even if your going to output to HD-SDi the propsect workflow adds un-necessary re-compression steps. At least if you work with Vegas or FCP and a BM or Kona there is only one re-compression step, right at the end when you export the final uncompressed file.

To be honest it is my opinion that all the Premiere XDCAM solutions are workarounds and do not do XDCAM any favours. Maybe we will see a proper Premiere XDCAM plug-in that works sometime in the future, but for now I would suggest giving Vegas a shot. You can run it on the same hardware as Premiere so the only thing to buy is the software. Avid Media composer is excellent, but the software is a bit on the expensive side.

I think one of the reasons so many XDCAM users are running FCP is that it works as advertised with no messing around. Simply install it on any current mac with sufficient ram and it will work. No extra cards or special set ups needed. Of course you can also add a BM or Kona card for extra connectivity and preview options, but you don't have to.
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Old December 10th, 2006, 04:53 AM   #7
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If you own a PC, and use XDCAM, Vegas is currently the only serious option if you want to handle all XDCAM types without spending a fortune. It works really well too.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 07:03 AM   #8
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Edius also supports XDCAM workflow.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 08:02 AM   #9
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You can, but at the base level it needs an optional module. Also, to my knowledge it doesn't handle the IMX version of XDCAM.

Vegas is the only NLE I know of that handles all XDCAM flavours out of the box below $1000, and can also master back to all of them too, complete with selective multi channel mapping.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 09:25 AM   #10
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Simon is right. Vegas is the only low cost PC software option for XDCAM HD that works without any additional plug-ins or hardware. It's a very powerful tool but has an interface that is quite different to most NLE's. Master the interface and Vegas idiosyncrasies and you have an edit platform that can do just about anything. You can even add a Blackmagic card (and raid) for uncompressed HD-SDi if you need to master to HDCAM. Avid media composer is excellent if you need compatibility with other Avid users or use freelance editor, but the cost of the software is the same as a new mac computer and FCP.

What a shame Avid have restricted Xpress to 25Mb XDCAM.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 02:53 PM   #11
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Edius broadcast4 handles ALL XDCAM HD files, without any kind of additional hardware.
I use software only, in a normal powerful pc.
It works fast reliable and can export back to camera in MXF HD.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 03:32 PM   #12
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And how much is Edius Broadcast?
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Old December 12th, 2006, 06:02 AM   #13
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About $1000
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Old December 12th, 2006, 06:31 AM   #14
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Compared to $500 for Vegas 7 which includes DVD Architect 4. Quite a difference!
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Old December 14th, 2006, 02:56 AM   #15
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do you think avid have restricted xpress so people have to buy media composer? surely with final cut pro being able to handle the full bit rate as standard they should try and compete more?
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