Getting an F330 for testing, some advice needed at DVinfo.net

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Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).


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Old December 14th, 2006, 05:51 AM   #1
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Getting an F330 for testing, some advice needed

Next weekIll get a F330 for testing.To be prepared for the next week Id like to ask you several questions:
Is the SDI from the F350 only HD or could I downconvert during filming to use a SD SDI Monitor?
Is the autofocuslens from the 330k really that bad for HD Aquisition? How is that lens compared to a half inch SD lens like Canons low level 19x6,7?

My maininterest is the nondestructive tapeless workflow. But because all of my workstations are pc-based, FCP is not an option, so I downloaded a Demoversion vegas 7.0. and Sonys newest Software PDZ. Should I have now all the necessary codecs for editing?
Does anybody work with this tapeless workflow from begin to the finalmovie hassle-free with vegas?
When importing files from the disc via FAM with the PDZ Software, has anyone tried to import the native files into premiere pro or Aftereffects?
Is the ftp import only available with the player or recorder? Is this faster than FAM Mode?
Can I record and write back to the Disc in different formats on the same disc?
When exporting i.e. as an IMX file to the disc is this file exactly the same as writing to another harddisk?
Anything else to care?

Thanks

alex
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Old December 14th, 2006, 12:26 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Horvath
Next weekIll get a F330 for testing.To be prepared for the next week Id like to ask you several questions:
Is the SDI from the F350 only HD or could I downconvert during filming to use a SD SDI Monitor?
The 350 has HD-SDI out, and SD composite out. That's it. If you need downconverted, it will have to be the composite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Horvath
Is the autofocuslens from the 330k really that bad for HD Aquisition? How is that lens compared to a half inch SD lens like Canons low level 19x6,7?
Optically, I doubt it's that bad at all. The operation of it and the fine focus control one needs for manual focusing on a high-res camera like this might be another matter though, with the electronically coupled focus ring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Horvath
...so I downloaded a Demoversion vegas 7.0. and Sonys newest Software PDZ. Should I have now all the necessary codecs for editing?

Does anybody work with this tapeless workflow from begin to the finalmovie hassle-free with vegas?
Sounds like it. Simon would be a good person to answer this, although I think we have some other Vegas people here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Horvath
Is the ftp import only available with the player or recorder? Is this faster than FAM Mode?
Firewire only on the camera. As to which is faster, somebody else would have to answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Horvath
Can I record and write back to the Disc in different formats on the same disc?
No. Wish you could. Codecs, framerates, and audio channel numbers all have to match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Horvath
When exporting i.e. as an IMX file to the disc is this file exactly the same as writing to another harddisk?
You worded the question oddly, but I think the answer is yes. The computer sees the disk as a mass storage device just like a hard disk. Some NLEs can write a properly formatted MXF file (of your edited video, for example) back to the disc as a data file. Not all of them out there can do this.

Did that answer the question?
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Old December 14th, 2006, 01:56 PM   #3
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The FTP import is only available on the decks and the SD version of the camera(with an optional board). Since the decks and SD camera only support 100mb ethernet, Firewire is faster anyway at a 400mb data rate.

The ethernet/FTP stuff was meant for integrating into existing IT infra-structures of large news organizations when the SD version of decks/cameras came out. It's not available on the F330/350 as Nate mentioned.

The HDSDI on the 350 will function as an SD SDI, but only if the camera is running in DVCAM SD mode. No real-time downconvert available via SDI. Real-time downconvert is available through the FW port if you place the FW port in AV/C mode.

-gb-
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Old December 14th, 2006, 03:49 PM   #4
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Like the others have said FAM is the only option on the camera. As to which is faster, I don't think there is much in it to be honest. However, if you have a device that does Ethernet transfer you will be able to monitor through that device as well as perform file transfer.

Quote:
Demoversion vegas 7.0. and Sonys newest Software PDZ. Should I have now all the necessary codecs for editing?
Does anybody work with this tapeless workflow from begin to the finalmovie hassle-free with vegas?
Yes, with Vegas 7 and PDZ you have everything neccesary. In fact you have everything you need with Vegas 7 on its own. The reasons why I still use PDZ-1 however are because 1) it allows partial file transfer via FAM (Vegas will only do partial file transfer via Ethernet), and b) because I often rename my clips, create cliplists etc for better organization before I start editing.

However you can do a fantastic job with Vegas 7 on its own. PDZ-1 just gives you some extra bells and whistles.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 03:40 AM   #5
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many thanks, very helpful.

To be shure, the 330 gives a SD YUV output in HDV mode while shooting?
Do both Camcorders have the expanded Focus feature in the same fashion like the Z1?

Because Im travelling a lot Im unshure to go with th 350 with its HDSDI only for monitoring while shooting. I dont want to carry an extra monitor with me and its quite difficult to find somewhere who has a HDSDI Monitor for rent at the different locations. I also own a 7" Marshall, but only with YUV in. (should be useful, as I read of the not so good LCD and VF of the 330)
I would like the other features like overcranking as well, but Ive got the feeling the only HDSDI output would cut down my flexibility.
Reading through the posts, I see the most of you were going with the 350 instead the 330.
What was your strongest argument for that decision?


bg
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Old December 15th, 2006, 09:24 AM   #6
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Don't mean to take this off-topic, but I was just looking (online) at this monitor:

Marshall V-R70P-HDA 7" LCD Monitor for HD/SD Field Production Kit with V-Type Battery Mount, LCD Mount and Case

from B&H. Is this the one you have? Can you or anyone recommend it or a similar one?

Thanks,
John
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Old December 15th, 2006, 10:55 AM   #7
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marshall monitor

reg. the marshal, let me say this in that way: it was one of the LCD monitors with the best dynamicrange, especially blacklevels and with the fewest after-image effect.
We use it for crane work and the Z1.
But to be honest, for critical work I still prefer a CRT, personally I would say, even a SD YUV from Sonys B-Series works better.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 11:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Horvath
many thanks, very helpful.

To be shure, the 330 gives a SD YUV output in HDV mode while shooting?
Do both Camcorders have the expanded Focus feature in the same fashion like the Z1?

Because Im travelling a lot Im unshure to go with th 350 with its HDSDI only for monitoring while shooting. I dont want to carry an extra monitor with me and its quite difficult to find somewhere who has a HDSDI Monitor for rent at the different locations. I also own a 7" Marshall, but only with YUV in. (should be useful, as I read of the not so good LCD and VF of the 330)
I would like the other features like overcranking as well, but Ive got the feeling the only HDSDI output would cut down my flexibility.
Reading through the posts, I see the most of you were going with the 350 instead the 330.
What was your strongest argument for that decision?


bg
alex
Alex, if you want to use your 7 inch Marshall using composite video, you'll have that with either the 330 or 350. The two cameras differ in availability of HD outputs. The 330 is HD component output while the 350 is HDSDI. Both cameras will output an SD composite signal via a separate connector on the right side of the camera body.

There is no expanded focus feature like the Z1 has and these are NOT HDV cameras. The 330 has a 1.5 inch 4:3 vf while the 350 has a 2.0 inch 16:9 vf which makes focusing easier. You can upgrade the 330 to the better quality vf though.

-gb-
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Old December 15th, 2006, 12:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham
Like the others have said FAM is the only option on the camera. As to which is faster, I don't think there is much in it to be honest. However, if you have a device that does Ethernet transfer you will be able to monitor through that device as well as perform file transfer.



Yes, with Vegas 7 and PDZ you have everything neccesary. In fact you have everything you need with Vegas 7 on its own. The reasons why I still use PDZ-1 however are because 1) it allows partial file transfer via FAM (Vegas will only do partial file transfer via Ethernet), and b) because I often rename my clips, create cliplists etc for better organization before I start editing.

However you can do a fantastic job with Vegas 7 on its own. PDZ-1 just gives you some extra bells and whistles.

I know that the demo version of Vegas is without some of the codecs you get when you by the full package (for instance no mpeg2).
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Old December 15th, 2006, 01:10 PM   #10
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John

some people have recommended using the small HDlink to convert the HDSDI into component to use for monitoring.

This way you get both. I think the HDlink is $5-600.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 05:55 PM   #11
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The HDLink doesn't do this, it's an AJA box that does, the AJA-HD10C

HDLink converts from HD-SDI to DVI-D or HDMI...not to analog component.
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Old December 17th, 2006, 11:00 AM   #12
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My Sony PVM-8044Q (SD with 16:9 switch) gives an adequate picture to light a scene, but if final output is HD, then I would guess that an HD monitor would be helpful.
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Old December 17th, 2006, 12:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Weaver
The HDLink doesn't do this, it's an AJA box that does, the AJA-HD10C

HDLink converts from HD-SDI to DVI-D or HDMI...not to analog component.
i have a dvi to component adaptor plug. would this work?
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Old December 17th, 2006, 01:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Bloom
i have a dvi to component adaptor plug. would this work?
The DVI spec allows for both digital and analog signals in the same connector. For instance, the DVI port on the back of your computer has both on the same plug...that's what allows for cheap adapters to a VGA plug and connection to older-style VGA computer monitors.

If you look closely on the HDLink documentation, they're careful that everytime they mention DVI, it's actually DVI-D, meaning digital. Only the digital signal portion is "live" on their DVI port.

Anytime a device has to do an A-to-D conversion in the HD world, it seems to add $1000 to the price. If it goes from D-to-A, it seems to add $600. Even AJA doesn't make a grey box that does both ways in one device.

Anyway, so the answer is no. Your adapter is for DVI that has both digital and analog provided already....its just a simple plug adapter.
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Old December 18th, 2006, 09:14 AM   #15
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Thanks for all the info on the Marshall.
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