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Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).


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Old June 7th, 2007, 12:28 PM   #1
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FCP cannot re-import an XDCAM export..

Sorry guys...I have a feeling this might have been posted already, but I personally couldn't find any old posts.

We effortlessly import at least 10 XDCAM field discs (with multiple clips) a week without any issues. We use XDCAM Transfer along with FCP 5 & 6.

We hit a brick wall whenever we try to re-import a "mastered" XDCAM disc (we master back three 1/2 hr shows to a disc with different audio and gfx configs....a master, a split and a foreign version). For some reason, whenever I go to import one of the three files off this disc, it only imports approx 3 minutes (give or take a few seconds).

Why does material straight out of our cameras import fine, but the discs we create here have a problem?

Here are some kickers to the issue:

-Everything plays back fine in AVC mode.

-We HAVE imported clips well over 30 minutes long from field recordings.

-We tried disabling audio tracks in the Transfer tool

-We tried importing footage straight from the transfer software to a drive...FCP wasn't even launched.

We tried all of the above as a means of troubleshooting, but to no avail....

For what it's worth, the file compression is HDV 1080 25cbr, although I doubt that has anything to do with this.

Any clues here? Is there any other info I might provide you guys?

Last edited by Harley Flanagan; June 7th, 2007 at 03:32 PM. Reason: confusing title
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Old June 7th, 2007, 03:00 PM   #2
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That's a strange one. Do you get any error messages? Is it FCP5 or 6 causing this? I'm trying to obtain an answer from someone else. Will let you know if and when I get a response.

-gb-
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Old June 7th, 2007, 03:12 PM   #3
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There was a discussion on this over at LAFCPUG last year, and I believe there is a soft limit to how long clips can be that are written back to the disk.

I also have had this problem, and I just import via AV/C. I don't have this problem with clips that are shot with the camera. I don't know why.

Search LAFCPUG.org, or Andy Mees will know. Andy knows everything.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 03:13 PM   #4
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Also... and this is purely an administrative comment... you'll do better with your thread if you name it something like "XDCam re-import troubles, 25Mbit CBR - freezing up", and put the cursory note to the mods at the end of the message... not the other way around.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 03:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston View Post
That's a strange one. Do you get any error messages? Is it FCP5 or 6 causing this? I'm trying to obtain an answer from someone else. Will let you know if and when I get a response.

-gb-

Greg..


No error message. XDCAM Transfer just stops like it normally does when it is complete. It's only ingesting 3 minutes of a 1/2 hr show. This problem occured initially on FCP 5.1. I tried to troubleshoot on FCP 6 but had the same exact issue.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 03:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Watson View Post
There was a discussion on this over at LAFCPUG last year, and I believe there is a soft limit to how long clips can be that are written back to the disk.

I also have had this problem, and I just import via AV/C. I don't have this problem with clips that are shot with the camera. I don't know why.

Search LAFCPUG.org, or Andy Mees will know. Andy knows everything.
See..yeah...you are experiencing the same thing. Clips from the camera can be long no problem, but re-ingesting an export is not happening!

AVC is an option of course, but this just does not seem right. Thanks for the input Mike...good to know it's not just a fluke.
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Old June 7th, 2007, 05:26 PM   #7
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I also get errors while exporting to disk, and blowing out the render files and re-rendering seems to fix that. Unfortunately, it can be an hours-long fix. No rhyme or reason to it, Sony tech support was stumped. Let's say I've been less than thrilled with the transfer software thus far.

-MW
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Old June 7th, 2007, 09:34 PM   #8
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Sorry Harley (and Mike!)

The best I can do is confirm that I have had this same problem reported to me too in the past. However when I tried to duplicate the issue I was unsuccessful. Here's my findings at the time:

Quote:
22.2.07
Hi XXXXX

Iíve been trying to replicate your issue over the last couple of days but have not been successful :/
For a test I imported a 33 minute clip from disc (XDCAM HD at 25 Mbps) using XDCAM Transfer, then edited it down to 30 minutes in FCP and exported it back disc, then I re-imported that file back into FCP .... everything worked.
I also tried it numerous times with smaller files (between 3-5 minute edits cut in the DV codec) and again, no issues with multiple generations of export and re-import.
The 33 minute clipís file size was a little over 6GB, so I would doubt that your issue is directly file size related ....

...that said, my hard disc space was running a little low on my laptop, so I made sure to free up plenty of space first, to ensure there was room for temporary cache files etc, how much free disc space are you working with?

Is there anything else about your media or setup that you can think of that I should need to know? Perhaps I can try testing with the exact same clip format you are working with... what is your source format?

Cheers
Andy
so it's clearly not any kind of set limit.

... and Mike, I've had plenty of those Export Failed messages too. Same fix as you. Blow out the renders and re-export or check the "Recompress all frames" checkbox in the export dialog.

We are all eagerly awaiting the long long overdue update to this otherwise promising software. The trouble is that Sony have adopted a "we provide it for free so we're not obliged to anyone" approach. Frankly, I'd rather pay for it and then be owed some support.

Andy
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Old June 8th, 2007, 09:15 AM   #9
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Looking from the sideline. Is the name of the clip following the 'name convention' for MXF files? (like C0001.MXF or such).
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Old June 8th, 2007, 09:33 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Klaas van Urk View Post
Looking from the sideline. Is the name of the clip following the 'name convention' for MXF files? (like C0001.MXF or such).
affimative.
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Old June 8th, 2007, 09:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Andy Mees View Post
Sorry Harley (and Mike!)

The best I can do is confirm that I have had this same problem reported to me too in the past. However when I tried to duplicate the issue I was unsuccessful. Here's my findings at the time:



so it's clearly not any kind of set limit.

... and Mike, I've had plenty of those Export Failed messages too. Same fix as you. Blow out the renders and re-export or check the "Recompress all frames" checkbox in the export dialog.

We are all eagerly awaiting the long long overdue update to this otherwise promising software. The trouble is that Sony have adopted a "we provide it for free so we're not obliged to anyone" approach. Frankly, I'd rather pay for it and then be owed some support.

Andy

Andy..thanks for your reply.

This is really odd. I'm now leaning towards the possibility of us doing something wrong on export. I'm really out of answers.
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Old June 8th, 2007, 10:52 AM   #12
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Andy... you ever get over here, stateside?
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Old June 8th, 2007, 10:59 AM   #13
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Ok..

A few more updates...

I saw that someone suggested that XDCAM Transfer has issues sometimes with SAN MP (which we use). I quit SAN MP and wrote to a local drive instead. SAME ISSUE.

I had been using discs @ 25, so I tried a disc @ 35. SAME ISSUE.

Andy-

Our 25 Mbps shows were shot @ XDCAM 10801 60 25 and imported onto an HDV 1080i 60 timeline. We currently shoot on XDCAM 10801 60 35 and import it into a sequence with the same settings we shot at.

The exports of both will not re-import.
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Old June 8th, 2007, 11:28 AM   #14
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There is certainly an issue with SAN drivers. This has cropped up a few times now and can cause all kinds of import and export issues.
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Old June 8th, 2007, 01:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley Flanagan View Post
Our 25 Mbps shows were shot @ XDCAM 10801 60 25 and imported onto an HDV 1080i 60 timeline. We currently shoot on XDCAM 10801 60 35 and import it into a sequence with the same settings we shot at.

The exports of both will not re-import.
Harley,

This is the response I got from my technical contact at Sony America HQ.

Quote:
I think if they upgrade the decks they are using to ingest the files to
version 1.60, the problem will go away.

The was a bug in Version 1.56 when a 60i MXF file which was created
using GOP splicing techniques was written to the disc. The file is
valid and is accepted by the deck (and it plays perfectly in the deck).

However, when you try to read the file (ie re-ingest the file into the
NLE), the deck would read up to the splice point and then stop (on
Windows the operating system would say that there was an I/O error).

Version 1.60 for the PDW-F70 fixes this reading problem.
So I would make sure that your decks (and camera/s) are all at firmware revision 1.6 to eliminate that as a cause.

regards,

-gb-
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