Problem with MRC1 or with CF cards? at DVinfo.net

Kevin Walsh · May 26th, 2008, 06:38 AM

I have been having a lot of problems getting my MRC1 and transcend 32Gb cards to work together. I'm getting lots of data breaks as well as major sync issues. I have 3 cards and the problems happen with all three.

In addition the only way I can get all of my footage into FCP is to drag the files to my hard drive and convert them using mpeg streamclip then import. Using log and transfer in FCP is spotty at best.

Does this sound like problems with the MRC1 or with the cards?

Dan Keaton · May 26th, 2008, 06:50 AM

Dear Kevin,

Are you doing "long form" recording?

In other words, what are the length of your shots in minutes?

If you files are around 4 Gigabytes (GB), then that explains the breaks that you are getting.

It appears that you are just copying your files manually from the MRC1 to your hard disk, then importing these files into FCP.

If you are doing "long form" recording, then you must use a utility to copy the files to your hard disk, thus creating one big file out of the smaller 4 GB files. Otherwise, you will have breaks in your shots.

You can try this yourself. Record some shots that are just 1 or 2 minutes long. Then import them like you are doing now. I believe the problems will go away.

The problem is not in the files, they just must be stitched back together properly.

Kevin Walsh · May 26th, 2008, 08:47 AM

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your response. I think you may be right the problem could be with my workflow. I just tried playing back the problem clips through the camera and they played in sync, but there was an occasional stutter.

I guess my problems lie with the log and transfer feature in FCP and the Sony plug-in. The issues seem so random sometimes one 30 second clip will import and the next 30 second clip will not import. None of the large clips (30min +) import. This is so frustrating. I downloaded the latest plug-in 1.01 and I amrunning FCP 6.03. I installed the latest plug-in without uninstalling the previous version. No uninstaller was included.

I am using a USB 2.0 CF reader because I can't get the computer to recognize the MRC1.

If anyone has any other ideas it would be appreciated, I have spent a lot of time trying to get this to work.

Tim Dashwood · May 26th, 2008, 09:38 AM

Kevin,

I haven't shot any 30+ minute clips, but I did find that importing via log & transfer from m2t files already on my hard drive seemed to work flawlessly (as opposed to a USB CF reader which was spotty.)
The trick is to make sure the m2t files are inside a folder named "HVR" and make sure that is in a folder named "VIDEO". Other than that the Sony plug-in doesn't care where that VIDEO folder lives... you just have to direct it there.

Kevin Walsh · May 26th, 2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Kevin,

I haven't shot any 30+ minute clips, but I did find that importing via log & transfer from m2t files already on my hard drive seemed to work flawlessly (as opposed to a USB CF reader which was spotty.)
The trick is to make sure the m2t files are inside a folder named "HVR" and make sure that is in a folder named "VIDEO". Other than that the Sony plug-in doesn't care where that VIDEO folder lives... you just have to direct it there.

Tim,
Thanks, That was a good idea, but it hasn't worked either. I just tried importing from the HDD and I get exactly the same results as I did from the CF reader. I tried to import 91 clips but only 75 of them import. The same 16 clips are still giving me trouble. They show up in the log and transfer window with a red stop sign next to them. When I scroll over the stop sign it says "Error no data". They play back fine in the camera however.

Tim Dashwood · May 26th, 2008, 02:54 PM

Seems to me you simply have corrupt files. Try a non-Transcend CF card and see if the same thing happens.

The beauty of the tape-redundant system is that you can always capture from the tape!

Dan Keaton · May 27th, 2008, 03:01 AM

Transcend is not a household name, but they do make high-quality Compact Flash cards.

In our testing we have been very pleased with their cards, they generally perform better than their printed specs.

Specifically, the 32 GB card works well.

Reading and writing to Compact Flash cards is not as trival as it would seem.

In our development of the Flash XDR we found that we had to adjust the timing of the reads to prevent glitches. We do not attribute this to the Transcend brand, just reading Compact Flash cards in general.

Laurence Kingston · May 27th, 2008, 06:04 AM

I was having problems with my lone Transcend 32GB CF card until I did a full format from my PC followed by a regular Z7 format. The camera format is so quick that I'm sure it is just a quick format. This is fine most of the time, but if there are errors in any storage device you need a true full format. It helped me at least. My Transcend card has been fine ever since.

Tim Dashwood · May 27th, 2008, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence Kingston

I was having problems with my lone Transcend 32GB CF card until I did a full format from my PC followed by a regular Z7 format. The camera format is so quick that I'm sure it is just a quick format. This is fine most of the time, but if there are errors in any storage device you need a true full format. It helped me at least. My Transcend card has been fine ever since.

That's a good point. Kevin, did you format your cards in the Z7? (it's in the DELETE menu.)

Kevin Walsh · May 27th, 2008, 09:00 AM

Yup, I saw Laurence's post about this in another thread and tried it. Maybe I just have a bad unit. I have a pretty low sn# 110006. This brings me back to my original question, is problem with the cards, or the MRC1?

Kevin Walsh · May 27th, 2008, 03:19 PM

Update:
I spoke with Sony and Transcend today and they both think that the cards are not fast enough to keep up with the data stream. The tech at Transcend told me to return the cards for replacement.
I don't think that this will solve my problems, but I'm going to do it so that I can move things forward. Transcend said that they make 266X cards, so I am hoping to work something out with them if the replacement cards have the same problems.
It's hard to believe that there aren't more people having these issues. Maybe I am the only one recording long form.

Tom Valens · May 27th, 2008, 09:30 PM

The Sony Z7 literature recommends (of course) using Sony Compact Flash cards - but I haven't been able to find anywhere that sells them. Anyone know a source for Sony 16GB Compact Flash cards?

Marshall Levy · May 27th, 2008, 10:01 PM

What I find very aggrevating about all of the CF-related issues is that Sony is constantly stating to use the Sony-branded, 306x cards, in that this will supposedly illeviate all of the recordation and transfer issues many people are experiencing.

HOWEVER, I find this to be an easy answer as they're finding a simple way to fix a problem and to gain more sales.

The threshold for the HDV spec is maxed and can be compensated just fine with a 133x-equivalent CF card, and this can be proven by all of the tests that have been done, the review I wrote a few months ago, as well as Sony's specifications.

The 133x, 233x, 266x, 300x, 306x, etc. are beneficial more in terms of transfer speed of the files rather than the recordation based on the way in which the Z7/270 records the files.

And, finally, what I also find illogical is that Sony releases a camera in February, states to use Sony's media, but the media won't be available until June, leaving current owners with a four-month gap between product availabilities. Makes no sense to me at all.

Laurence Kingston · May 27th, 2008, 10:30 PM

Marshall, are you recording to both tape and card simultaneously? I seem to have trouble going to both at the same time, but none at all when I record to just the card.

Marshall Levy · May 27th, 2008, 10:36 PM

Yeah, together it can be a fun mess. The camera that went crazy a few weeks back recorded 1,021 clips or so, was 17:21 offsync between tape and CF, and 49 clips had no audio.

Since the replacement, I've been using CF only and it's been flawless.

I haven't really used tape in a few years, but the syncing with this camera was a nightmare - however I think the camera had some underlying issues that caused them as the issues were so significant.

May 26th, 2008, 06:38 AM	#1
Kevin Walsh Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Phoenixville, PA Posts: 225	Problem with MRC1 or with CF cards? I have been having a lot of problems getting my MRC1 and transcend 32Gb cards to work together. I'm getting lots of data breaks as well as major sync issues. I have 3 cards and the problems happen with all three. In addition the only way I can get all of my footage into FCP is to drag the files to my hard drive and convert them using mpeg streamclip then import. Using log and transfer in FCP is spotty at best. Does this sound like problems with the MRC1 or with the cards?

May 26th, 2008, 06:50 AM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Kevin, Are you doing "long form" recording? In other words, what are the length of your shots in minutes? If you files are around 4 Gigabytes (GB), then that explains the breaks that you are getting. It appears that you are just copying your files manually from the MRC1 to your hard disk, then importing these files into FCP. If you are doing "long form" recording, then you must use a utility to copy the files to your hard disk, thus creating one big file out of the smaller 4 GB files. Otherwise, you will have breaks in your shots. You can try this yourself. Record some shots that are just 1 or 2 minutes long. Then import them like you are doing now. I believe the problems will go away. The problem is not in the files, they just must be stitched back together properly. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

May 26th, 2008, 09:38 AM	#4
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Kevin, I haven't shot any 30+ minute clips, but I did find that importing via log & transfer from m2t files already on my hard drive seemed to work flawlessly (as opposed to a USB CF reader which was spotty.) The trick is to make sure the m2t files are inside a folder named "HVR" and make sure that is in a folder named "VIDEO". Other than that the Sony plug-in doesn't care where that VIDEO folder lives... you just have to direct it there. __________________ Tim Dashwood

May 26th, 2008, 02:54 PM	#6
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Seems to me you simply have corrupt files. Try a non-Transcend CF card and see if the same thing happens. The beauty of the tape-redundant system is that you can always capture from the tape! __________________ Tim Dashwood

May 27th, 2008, 03:01 AM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Transcend is not a household name, but they do make high-quality Compact Flash cards. In our testing we have been very pleased with their cards, they generally perform better than their printed specs. Specifically, the 32 GB card works well. Reading and writing to Compact Flash cards is not as trival as it would seem. In our development of the Flash XDR we found that we had to adjust the timing of the reads to prevent glitches. We do not attribute this to the Transcend brand, just reading Compact Flash cards in general. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

May 26th, 2008, 08:47 AM	#3
Kevin Walsh Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Phoenixville, PA Posts: 225	Hi Dan, Thanks for your response. I think you may be right the problem could be with my workflow. I just tried playing back the problem clips through the camera and they played in sync, but there was an occasional stutter. I guess my problems lie with the log and transfer feature in FCP and the Sony plug-in. The issues seem so random sometimes one 30 second clip will import and the next 30 second clip will not import. None of the large clips (30min +) import. This is so frustrating. I downloaded the latest plug-in 1.01 and I amrunning FCP 6.03. I installed the latest plug-in without uninstalling the previous version. No uninstaller was included. I am using a USB 2.0 CF reader because I can't get the computer to recognize the MRC1. If anyone has any other ideas it would be appreciated, I have spent a lot of time trying to get this to work.

May 27th, 2008, 06:04 AM	#8
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	I was having problems with my lone Transcend 32GB CF card until I did a full format from my PC followed by a regular Z7 format. The camera format is so quick that I'm sure it is just a quick format. This is fine most of the time, but if there are errors in any storage device you need a true full format. It helped me at least. My Transcend card has been fine ever since.

May 27th, 2008, 09:00 AM	#10
Kevin Walsh Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Phoenixville, PA Posts: 225	Yup, I saw Laurence's post about this in another thread and tried it. Maybe I just have a bad unit. I have a pretty low sn# 110006. This brings me back to my original question, is problem with the cards, or the MRC1?

May 27th, 2008, 03:19 PM	#11
Kevin Walsh Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Phoenixville, PA Posts: 225	Update: I spoke with Sony and Transcend today and they both think that the cards are not fast enough to keep up with the data stream. The tech at Transcend told me to return the cards for replacement. I don't think that this will solve my problems, but I'm going to do it so that I can move things forward. Transcend said that they make 266X cards, so I am hoping to work something out with them if the replacement cards have the same problems. It's hard to believe that there aren't more people having these issues. Maybe I am the only one recording long form.

May 27th, 2008, 09:30 PM	#12
Tom Valens Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 28	The Sony Z7 literature recommends (of course) using Sony Compact Flash cards - but I haven't been able to find anywhere that sells them. Anyone know a source for Sony 16GB Compact Flash cards?

May 27th, 2008, 10:01 PM	#13
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	What I find very aggrevating about all of the CF-related issues is that Sony is constantly stating to use the Sony-branded, 306x cards, in that this will supposedly illeviate all of the recordation and transfer issues many people are experiencing. HOWEVER, I find this to be an easy answer as they're finding a simple way to fix a problem and to gain more sales. The threshold for the HDV spec is maxed and can be compensated just fine with a 133x-equivalent CF card, and this can be proven by all of the tests that have been done, the review I wrote a few months ago, as well as Sony's specifications. The 133x, 233x, 266x, 300x, 306x, etc. are beneficial more in terms of transfer speed of the files rather than the recordation based on the way in which the Z7/270 records the files. And, finally, what I also find illogical is that Sony releases a camera in February, states to use Sony's media, but the media won't be available until June, leaving current owners with a four-month gap between product availabilities. Makes no sense to me at all.

May 27th, 2008, 10:30 PM	#14
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Marshall, are you recording to both tape and card simultaneously? I seem to have trouble going to both at the same time, but none at all when I record to just the card.

May 27th, 2008, 10:36 PM	#15
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	Yeah, together it can be a fun mess. The camera that went crazy a few weeks back recorded 1,021 clips or so, was 17:21 offsync between tape and CF, and 49 clips had no audio. Since the replacement, I've been using CF only and it's been flawless. I haven't really used tape in a few years, but the syncing with this camera was a nightmare - however I think the camera had some underlying issues that caused them as the issues were so significant.