First impression HVR-DR-60 at DVinfo.net

Arnt Mollan · March 7th, 2007, 02:49 PM

First impression with the HVR-DR60!
CD with PDF Manual. Firewire cable and bracket for the camera. You only need the battery. Recorded a few clips with my A1 and Z1. No problems, worked out of the box. It popped up in explorer as a usual HD. No installation needed. And yes, the clips created a folder each. I used X1 search engine for PC workstation, and searched the DR-60 for m2t files, copy-paste, and 5,4 GB (29,5min) of recordings was imported in 4min30sec. I think that is impressive for a 1,8 disc. Not tested the buffer yet.
More testing tomorrow.

Bob Grant · March 7th, 2007, 03:29 PM

Works very well with Vegas 7.
Not too certain about FCP, seems to have a problem handling the m2t files. Anyone know how to get m2t onto a FCP T/L, is Slipstream the answer?

Scott Vystrcil · March 8th, 2007, 12:11 PM

Arnt,

I use Edius 4.0 and I have a FS-4 Pro HD. I have issues using m2t files in the timeline. There is a time code issue and Canopus is working on it. Have you seen the same thing? Is time code recorded in m2t files?

DV works just fine with the FS-4, just not HDV.

Juliana Mori · March 9th, 2007, 07:11 AM

[And yes, the clips created a folder each.]

Arnt,

what does that mean? A new folder every time you press start/stop or every certain amount of minutes? And how is this clip identified (just number like 000001/ 00002/ 0003 or can you name it in the Dr60 )?

I've worked with DSRs with portable HDs a while ago and, besides rendering audio in FCP due to uncompatibility issues, we also had to rename all the clips and folders because otherwise Final Cut would ask the whole time if we wanted to replace the 000001 for the new 000001... it was a pain!

And last, have you tested the DR60 with FCP? Does it work good? What about DR60 with FCP in SD dv mode? (I'm still trying to figure out the "dv raw" issue, that's the main thing for me to decide wether to buy a Dr60 or a FS4 pro)

Best regards, Juliana

Arnt Mollan · March 14th, 2007, 05:50 AM

Sorry for the late feedback. Been much to do lately.
The recordings do have timecode.
It records each clip in its own folder. If I use the buffer, it records the 14 sec buffer as a clip, in the same folder as the main recorded clip.
If the recording is bigger than 4GB, the clip is split in the same folder.
The next time I hit the record button, it creates a new folder for the new clip.
It may lag up to 2 sec behind the cameras recording start and stop. So if not using the buffer, add 2 sec more for the DR60 to start recording. The clips are named Format/folder number/file Number.m2t (HDV00101.m2t)

I hooked it up to my MacBook and opend iMovie, it did find the DR60 and the clips, but did not recognize the format. So it must be imported and converted some way.

I have done som "long distance recordings" with 30m (90feet) Firewire cable and Lanc control, only recording with the DR-60. No tape. And no problems.
Its uses almost no power. Recorded all day with the same battery. The manual says 970 min constant recording with NP-F970.

All in all, very pleased so far.
The only problem for someone could be the folders. But if you are going to import anyway, I cant see that this would spoil the fun...

Lorry Smyth · March 14th, 2007, 06:08 AM

Arnt, thanks for the thread and feedback! Quick question; do you think the HVR-DR-60 should work with just about any HDV camera? I am planning to match it with Canon's upcoming HV20 and am not sure if the HVR-DR-60 will respond to the start-stop trigger button on the camera itself or if it needs to be manually started. How do you use it with the A1? I had read that the HVR-DR-60 "talks" nicely with Sony HDV cams but that matching it with other branded cams could have its issues.

Thanks again!

Arnt Mollan · March 14th, 2007, 06:41 AM

Sorry, I cant answere on that. And no Canon in my neighborhood, so I cant test it.
On my Z1 and A1 it starts automatic when I hit the record button, with a delay of up to 2 sec. And I can start the DR60 manually.
The new Sony V1 has more functions with this unit. You can change tape while you record to DR60, and it is possible to start recording to DR60 from the camera without tape. And you have remain record time and battery on the camera LCD.
But with other cameras, I dont know.

Scott Hayes · March 15th, 2007, 07:12 AM

Does anyone know if Sony plans on addressing this issue with a firmware
update, or a new model? They are going to cost themselves a bunch
of purchasers by NOT supporting quicktime and FCP.

John Moon · March 20th, 2007, 03:09 PM

Sony really does need to address the FCP issue. I have an nNovia drive and love it. I was going to try the DR60 with my Z1 but I'm not ready to spend that kind of cash. I was in contact with an nNovia rep and they have a nice cage for the drive for the Z1 that should be out soon. Anyone heard from Sony on the problem?

Greg Quinn · March 21st, 2007, 11:43 PM

I'm using the DR60 with FCP and MPEG streamclip batch conversion, which is working fine but hardly a great workflow. I can't imagine that Apple won't support M2T files in the next version of FCP that'll be released at NAB next month. In my case, I'm filming in 24P, converting to AIC and then using cinema tools to remove pulldown.

Juliana Mori · March 26th, 2007, 10:31 AM

Thanks a lot for your feedback, Arnt. And sorry about this late reply but I'd also too much to do past week. Actually I was shooting the material wich DR60 was meant to work with... but it was oldtimes workflow yet...

So, about Dr60 media organization, as I've understood, every folder in Dr60 has each own clip (and inside this folder there is one clip with the buff 14sec and another clip with the video - and this one clip can become two or three due to the 4Gb limit).

As the clips are named "Format/folder number/file Number.m2t (HDV00101.m2t)" there never should be any two clips with the same name. So all the replace issue seems to be very well solved.

So the only problem for me, a FCP user, is the compability with FCP in both modes (HDV and DV). Greg just posted here that he is converting the m2t files. For me, wasting the time with conversions is not worthy so I'm deciding on the FS4 Pro Hd. As I understood here in the forum, the FS would work very well with a whole banch of formats (including dv and hdv QTs for FCP) and is cheaper, what now sounds more reasonably. If anyone has any complaint about the FS, please let me know.

Thank you all. Juliana.

Arnt Mollan · March 27th, 2007, 08:18 AM

Just did a test with the clips on the timeline, and every seam together are a half sec to short. I guess this is what the fix program for DR60 is for. Anyone tested this yet?
Another thing; if you start to record from the DR60 the 14 sec buffer is integrated with the first clip, and not as a clip alone.
So you can start to rec on the Dr60 first, and than press rec on the camera, and end the recording on the camera. This will give you an integrated 14 sec buffer in the first clip on the DR60.
I hope this make sense.

Good luck Juliana with the FS4. Just hope FCP can take m2t files soon.

Juliana Mori · March 28th, 2007, 07:45 AM

Thanks, Arnt. I'll try it as soon as it'll be delivered to me here back in Brazil. Then I'll let you guys know about FCP compatibility and workflow.

About FCP taking m2t files, I agree but I still think Sony should have thought about that. It shouldn't be hard to support QT (at least in dv mode), but I believe they care more about Vegas and such... it's a pitty all this brand market protection.

Nick Williams · April 26th, 2007, 10:48 AM

Hi, I've been working with the DR-60 for a couple of months now. My current workflow could be better as I'm shooting all 24A footage onto the DR-60 and using FCP to edit. Right now this means, converting all of the M2T files to quicktime, then using cinema tools do another conversion, then finally being able to edit. I was hoping NAB would give us some good news about at least one of these issues.. but it still might be a little soon.

I have gotten use to the workflow however. The DR-60 is awesome for reviewing clips throughout the shoot and even after I get it back to my desktop, I like being able to open up each clip in mpeg streamclip and review and delete the takes I don't want.

Bottom line for me right now is, that there are major workarounds, but I've just adopted those as part of what needs to happen. Surely, those of you with more time sensitive projects, something like this would be unacceptable. But I figure I can hold out a while longer for the complete integration of this cool device and amazing camera.

Jerry Wiese · May 9th, 2007, 06:58 PM

I just bought my second DR-60, along with a second V1U. I use Vegas 7, so it works fine. The only problem I have encountered is a very slow import when I have a lot of long video clips that take up more than 4GB. I shoot performances (dance, etc) and almost always leave it rolling up to an hour or more. It takes a long time for the files to splice together into a continuous clip. Hopefully, Sony will improve performance with firmware or a Vegas upgrade.

However, I do like the fact that I don't have to worry about a tape running out in the middle of a performance. It is also great for instant shoot and edit stuff. By plugging it into my PC, I can knock out a quick demo DVD on the spot, and that is very impressive.

March 7th, 2007, 02:49 PM	#1
Arnt Mollan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 87	First impression HVR-DR-60 First impression with the HVR-DR60! CD with PDF Manual. Firewire cable and bracket for the camera. You only need the battery. Recorded a few clips with my A1 and Z1. No problems, worked out of the box. It popped up in explorer as a usual HD. No installation needed. And yes, the clips created a folder each. I used X1 search engine for PC workstation, and searched the DR-60 for m2t files, copy-paste, and 5,4 GB (29,5min) of recordings was imported in 4min30sec. I think that is impressive for a 1,8 disc. Not tested the buffer yet. More testing tomorrow. __________________ Arnt Mollan www.mollanmedia.com

March 8th, 2007, 12:11 PM	#3
Scott Vystrcil Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 116	What NLE are you using? Arnt, I use Edius 4.0 and I have a FS-4 Pro HD. I have issues using m2t files in the timeline. There is a time code issue and Canopus is working on it. Have you seen the same thing? Is time code recorded in m2t files? DV works just fine with the FS-4, just not HDV. __________________ Scott A. Vystrcil Equipment - Sony HVR-Z1U--Firestore FS-4 Pro HD (40GB)--Cartoni Focus F101 Editing - Canopus Edius Pro 4, Intel Pentium D 940 (3.2 GHz), 2GB, 74GB SATA 10K, 160GB SATAII, 300GB SATA, nVidia GeForce 6800 (256MB), Dell 20 in widescreen flat panel (2007WFP) http://watersedgefrisco.com http://vystrcil.com

March 14th, 2007, 05:50 AM	#5
Arnt Mollan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 87	Sorry for the late feedback. Been much to do lately. The recordings do have timecode. It records each clip in its own folder. If I use the buffer, it records the 14 sec buffer as a clip, in the same folder as the main recorded clip. If the recording is bigger than 4GB, the clip is split in the same folder. The next time I hit the record button, it creates a new folder for the new clip. It may lag up to 2 sec behind the cameras recording start and stop. So if not using the buffer, add 2 sec more for the DR60 to start recording. The clips are named Format/folder number/file Number.m2t (HDV00101.m2t) I hooked it up to my MacBook and opend iMovie, it did find the DR60 and the clips, but did not recognize the format. So it must be imported and converted some way. I have done som "long distance recordings" with 30m (90feet) Firewire cable and Lanc control, only recording with the DR-60. No tape. And no problems. Its uses almost no power. Recorded all day with the same battery. The manual says 970 min constant recording with NP-F970. All in all, very pleased so far. The only problem for someone could be the folders. But if you are going to import anyway, I cant see that this would spoil the fun... __________________ Arnt Mollan www.mollanmedia.com

March 14th, 2007, 06:41 AM	#7
Arnt Mollan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 87	Sorry, I cant answere on that. And no Canon in my neighborhood, so I cant test it. On my Z1 and A1 it starts automatic when I hit the record button, with a delay of up to 2 sec. And I can start the DR60 manually. The new Sony V1 has more functions with this unit. You can change tape while you record to DR60, and it is possible to start recording to DR60 from the camera without tape. And you have remain record time and battery on the camera LCD. But with other cameras, I dont know. __________________ Arnt Mollan www.mollanmedia.com

March 15th, 2007, 07:12 AM	#8
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	Sony Support for Quicktime Does anyone know if Sony plans on addressing this issue with a firmware update, or a new model? They are going to cost themselves a bunch of purchasers by NOT supporting quicktime and FCP.

March 7th, 2007, 03:29 PM	#2
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Works very well with Vegas 7. Not too certain about FCP, seems to have a problem handling the m2t files. Anyone know how to get m2t onto a FCP T/L, is Slipstream the answer?

March 9th, 2007, 07:11 AM	#4
Juliana Mori New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SP Brazil Posts: 16	[And yes, the clips created a folder each.] Arnt, what does that mean? A new folder every time you press start/stop or every certain amount of minutes? And how is this clip identified (just number like 000001/ 00002/ 0003 or can you name it in the Dr60 )? I've worked with DSRs with portable HDs a while ago and, besides rendering audio in FCP due to uncompatibility issues, we also had to rename all the clips and folders because otherwise Final Cut would ask the whole time if we wanted to replace the 000001 for the new 000001... it was a pain! And last, have you tested the DR60 with FCP? Does it work good? What about DR60 with FCP in SD dv mode? (I'm still trying to figure out the "dv raw" issue, that's the main thing for me to decide wether to buy a Dr60 or a FS4 pro) Best regards, Juliana

March 14th, 2007, 06:08 AM	#6
Lorry Smyth Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Fracisco, CA Posts: 49	Arnt, thanks for the thread and feedback! Quick question; do you think the HVR-DR-60 should work with just about any HDV camera? I am planning to match it with Canon's upcoming HV20 and am not sure if the HVR-DR-60 will respond to the start-stop trigger button on the camera itself or if it needs to be manually started. How do you use it with the A1? I had read that the HVR-DR-60 "talks" nicely with Sony HDV cams but that matching it with other branded cams could have its issues. Thanks again!

March 20th, 2007, 03:09 PM	#9
John Moon Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 446	Sony really does need to address the FCP issue. I have an nNovia drive and love it. I was going to try the DR60 with my Z1 but I'm not ready to spend that kind of cash. I was in contact with an nNovia rep and they have a nice cage for the drive for the Z1 that should be out soon. Anyone heard from Sony on the problem?

March 21st, 2007, 11:43 PM	#10
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	I'm using the DR60 with FCP and MPEG streamclip batch conversion, which is working fine but hardly a great workflow. I can't imagine that Apple won't support M2T files in the next version of FCP that'll be released at NAB next month. In my case, I'm filming in 24P, converting to AIC and then using cinema tools to remove pulldown.

March 26th, 2007, 10:31 AM	#11
Juliana Mori New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SP Brazil Posts: 16	Thanks a lot for your feedback, Arnt. And sorry about this late reply but I'd also too much to do past week. Actually I was shooting the material wich DR60 was meant to work with... but it was oldtimes workflow yet... So, about Dr60 media organization, as I've understood, every folder in Dr60 has each own clip (and inside this folder there is one clip with the buff 14sec and another clip with the video - and this one clip can become two or three due to the 4Gb limit). As the clips are named "Format/folder number/file Number.m2t (HDV00101.m2t)" there never should be any two clips with the same name. So all the replace issue seems to be very well solved. So the only problem for me, a FCP user, is the compability with FCP in both modes (HDV and DV). Greg just posted here that he is converting the m2t files. For me, wasting the time with conversions is not worthy so I'm deciding on the FS4 Pro Hd. As I understood here in the forum, the FS would work very well with a whole banch of formats (including dv and hdv QTs for FCP) and is cheaper, what now sounds more reasonably. If anyone has any complaint about the FS, please let me know. Thank you all. Juliana.

March 27th, 2007, 08:18 AM	#12
Arnt Mollan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 87	Just did a test with the clips on the timeline, and every seam together are a half sec to short. I guess this is what the fix program for DR60 is for. Anyone tested this yet? Another thing; if you start to record from the DR60 the 14 sec buffer is integrated with the first clip, and not as a clip alone. So you can start to rec on the Dr60 first, and than press rec on the camera, and end the recording on the camera. This will give you an integrated 14 sec buffer in the first clip on the DR60. I hope this make sense. Good luck Juliana with the FS4. Just hope FCP can take m2t files soon. __________________ Arnt Mollan www.mollanmedia.com Last edited by Arnt Mollan; March 27th, 2007 at 09:35 AM.

March 28th, 2007, 07:45 AM	#13
Juliana Mori New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SP Brazil Posts: 16	Thanks, Arnt. I'll try it as soon as it'll be delivered to me here back in Brazil. Then I'll let you guys know about FCP compatibility and workflow. About FCP taking m2t files, I agree but I still think Sony should have thought about that. It shouldn't be hard to support QT (at least in dv mode), but I believe they care more about Vegas and such... it's a pitty all this brand market protection.

April 26th, 2007, 10:48 AM	#14
Nick Williams New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 19	Hi, I've been working with the DR-60 for a couple of months now. My current workflow could be better as I'm shooting all 24A footage onto the DR-60 and using FCP to edit. Right now this means, converting all of the M2T files to quicktime, then using cinema tools do another conversion, then finally being able to edit. I was hoping NAB would give us some good news about at least one of these issues.. but it still might be a little soon. I have gotten use to the workflow however. The DR-60 is awesome for reviewing clips throughout the shoot and even after I get it back to my desktop, I like being able to open up each clip in mpeg streamclip and review and delete the takes I don't want. Bottom line for me right now is, that there are major workarounds, but I've just adopted those as part of what needs to happen. Surely, those of you with more time sensitive projects, something like this would be unacceptable. But I figure I can hold out a while longer for the complete integration of this cool device and amazing camera.

May 9th, 2007, 06:58 PM	#15
Jerry Wiese Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Johns Creek, GA Posts: 42	I just bought my second DR-60, along with a second V1U. I use Vegas 7, so it works fine. The only problem I have encountered is a very slow import when I have a lot of long video clips that take up more than 4GB. I shoot performances (dance, etc) and almost always leave it rolling up to an hour or more. It takes a long time for the files to splice together into a continuous clip. Hopefully, Sony will improve performance with firmware or a Vegas upgrade. However, I do like the fact that I don't have to worry about a tape running out in the middle of a performance. It is also great for instant shoot and edit stuff. By plugging it into my PC, I can knock out a quick demo DVD on the spot, and that is very impressive.