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-   Sony HVR-A1 and HDR-HC Series (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr-a1-hdr-hc-series/)
-   -   Planning of doing side-by-side comparison on FX1 and HC1 (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr-a1-hdr-hc-series/46964-planning-doing-side-side-comparison-fx1-hc1.html)

Kaku Ito June 29th, 2005 02:05 PM

Planning of doing side-by-side comparison on FX1 and HC1
 
I hope my plan works on July 7th. Not for sure tho. But I will try.
You won't be seeing the same green bike anymore. Just got stolen last night.

Now I can provide you folks with better choices of video formats since FCP5 is here.

John Jay June 29th, 2005 03:10 PM

Wow - you had a bike stolen in Tokyo?


its probably outside Shinjuku station :)

Kaku Ito June 29th, 2005 07:44 PM

Hi John Jay,

No, it happened in Shibuya.

Michal Laskowski June 30th, 2005 10:43 AM

Great! I'm waiting impatiently for your review/comparison. :)

Regards

Lorin Thwaits June 30th, 2005 11:27 AM

Did Sony use a rolling shutter in the HC1?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito
I hope my plan works on July 7th. Not for sure tho. But I will try.
You won't be seeing the same green bike anymore. Just got stolen last night.

Now I can provide you folks with better choices of video formats since FCP5 is here.


A danged shame with the bike theft. Hopefully you can film an event for someone and earn enough money to replace it with a nice upgrade!

From page 87 of the HC1 manual, it says "subjects passing by the frame might appear crooked". This suggests that the CMOS sensor is using a rolling shutter rathar than a global shutter. If true, it would mean that Sony is getting more light sensitivity out of the available die space on the sensor by not having an extra shielded sensor area dedicated for a virtual shutter. The drawback is that objects in rapid horizontal motion show up tilted. The faster their CMOS readout speed can be, the less tilted it will be overall, but still it would be present. This same effect, much more pronounced, can be seen with cheap webcams when there is horizontal motion in the scene. In that scenario you can clearly see the scanning effect being used by the sensor.

Anyway, if you have time Kaku, I'd love to see an .M2T of an outdoor scene with the camera set to a high shutter speed, and something blocky (like a large truck) driving by rapidly. Or rapid panning on a scene with strong vertical lines. Examining field by field (cutting each frame into their individual fields) should show what appears to be a slanted edge. If the object is moving rapidly to the right, it should look like it slants slightly to the left!

Even if you don't have time for this specific test, I'm still very eager to check out the M2Ts you'll be creating. And thank you very, VERY much for your willingness to share them.

-Lorin
HDV Forever!

Chris Hurd June 30th, 2005 11:34 AM

Kaku, we've hosted your FX1 clips before and we'll be happy to do it again for your HC1 clips. Just let me know when you're ready and I'll give you the access info for uploading. Looking forward to it!

Mark Kubat July 2nd, 2005 08:10 PM

Kaku, you're amazing
 
Kaku, again I'll say that you've done AMAZING work on our behalf in North America - last summer you were invaluable helping me choose GS400 and then HDR-FX1... can't wait for your info!

Mark in Toronto

Wayne Morellini July 4th, 2005 06:06 AM

Kaku

I've noticed that the Aperture on the HC1 goes from F1.8-2.1 which is hardly anything compared to the F1.6-F11 of the FX1. This would indicate that the performance of the sensor might be so good as to not require much stepping down in Bright light. But also an advantage, even though you won't get large DOF, the effect of AE (and manual adjustment) on DOF will be reduced, and mostly effect gain (once shutter is locked). Along with locking down shutter speed, this gives a much better control of look of the video. Something well worth testing against the FX1.

Re-edit: I should add, not enough control to shoot cinema quality, of course, only doco etc.

Here are some other things that might be worth testing out:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47018
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47019
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47020

Kaku Ito July 4th, 2005 09:48 AM

You guys are so great
 
You people are so great and on top of things on what I should be doing and since what we (me and my company) can learn from it is so great, we decided to purchase to cam for testing (we can probably sell it right away).

With the help of Pro Video Station Shinjuku, I will be able to receive the cam on 6th, which is this Wednesday.

Chris Hurd July 4th, 2005 10:32 AM

Great -- glad to hear it, Kaku! Let me know when you're ready to upload some clips,

Chris Hurd July 4th, 2005 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini
I've noticed that the Aperture on the HC1 goes from F1.8-2.1 which is hardly anything compared to the F1.6-F11 of the FX1.

Er... Wayne... hold on there just a moment.

When you see f/1.8 to f/2.1 on the HC1, that's not the full aperture range of the lens by any means. It's simply the maximum apertures at each end of the zoom range. The maximum aperture at full wide is f/1.8. The maximum aperture at full telephoto is f/2.1. I couldn't readily find what the minimum aperture setting is before the iris closes, but most likely it's going to be f/11. Hope this helps,

Kaku Ito July 4th, 2005 11:55 AM

Okay, Chris and others that gave me testing suggestions.

Let's build the most valuable consumer report (opinion) here!!
I'm very concern about how Sony is skipping on cultural value with music and video lately, so I want them to be aware that the consumer expectation on media quality is higher than what they think. At the same time, they develop and manufacture good technology, too, so I want them to be better in taking good care of media culture. Our study and conclusions will greatly influence Sony.

Lorin Thwaits July 4th, 2005 12:51 PM

Glad to see your enthusiasm!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito
...consumer expectation on media quality is higher than what they think.

I think you're right. I hope Sony takes note of how interested we are in the details. Quality is very important to us. We're definitely happy to learn from all the tests you're preparing for.

Based on a few .M2Ts that were released to the Internet this morning from another site, it looks like the SteadyShot feature will occasionally stretch frames vertically to try to compensate for motion. Not a very good solution to stabilize the image! Ends up with a slightly "pulsating" image, and also limits a little the effectiveness of the MPEG2 compression. But that's really my only gripe with the footage. I'm hoping that this type of single-frame stretching of the image can be avoided by turning the SteadyShot off.

By the way, I'll be flying into Okinawa prefecture on Sunday, with a four-hour layover in Narita. If you know of a good place near either Narita or in Naha to buy an HC1 for around 160,000 yen, I'd be interested. Do you know if any of these three shops are reputable? They sure have great pricing.

http://www.tantan.co.jp/detail/HDR-HC1 - 151,400

http://www.tokado.jp/gekiyasu/video_body.htm#MARK1 - 158,300

http://www.bidders.co.jp/pitem/50723344 - 155,757

Thanks!

-Lorin

Kaku Ito July 5th, 2005 12:38 AM

Lorin,

Four-hour layover is not much to do since Narita is far from Tokyo.

You should make arrangement now with people in Okinawa that you can see in person to preorder for you with one of these company, or the shop I'm buying from. I can make sure that they help you.

Joe Barker July 5th, 2005 01:00 AM

Kaku
 
Are camera's cheap to buy in Japan ?I will be over there in September and was wondering what it costs for an XL2 or the new JVC GY-HD101E .Also are PAL versions available? Joe


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