gaming computer for HD editing? at DVinfo.net

Chaz Kempter · December 22nd, 2005, 01:43 PM

It seems like the gaming guys need the same things the HD editing guys need. What am I missing?

Chaz Kempter · December 23rd, 2005, 12:18 PM

What I mean is wouldn't a tricked out gaming computer do a good job with hd editing?

Rodi Kaya · December 23rd, 2005, 12:24 PM

I think it certainly would, mainly comes down to processor power.

Stephen Finton · December 23rd, 2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodi Kaya

I think it certainly would, mainly comes down to processor power.

Many of the newer versions of editing software are now taking advantage of GPUs as well via DirectX. So if you get AVID's new Liquid 7, for example, a beefy graphics card would rock.

Jeff Zimmerman · December 24th, 2005, 05:03 AM

Would suggest a Striped RAID with 2 or more Hard drives - as much memory and CPU power you can muscle. The better the video and sound card the smoother your system will run overall. Any and all updates for your system...

Chaz Kempter · December 24th, 2005, 08:01 AM

Yes, and it would also seem to me that the gaming computer is different than the "consumer" computer in that the gaming does not have to have all the "baggage" software that tends to slow you down. Am I correct? (You know, the 25 internet providers with seperate demos..... the office with fax stuff .... the dad-gum make a brithday card for grandma stuff ......the this-is-your-new-computer-push-this-button-to-turn-on walk through demo stuff...etc. etc. etc. stuff.)

Jeff DeMaagd · December 24th, 2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaz Kempter

Yes, and it would also seem to me that the gaming computer is different than the "consumer" computer in that the gaming does not have to have all the "baggage" software that tends to slow you down. Am I correct? (You know, the 25 internet providers with seperate demos..... the office with fax stuff .... the dad-gum make a brithday card for grandma stuff ......the this-is-your-new-computer-push-this-button-to-turn-on walk through demo stuff...etc. etc. etc. stuff.)

Some gaming computers are apparently loaded down with that crap too, I remember seeing a review of the latest Dell XPS that was hampered with that crap. If a person were to use the same computer for games and media work, maybe it is a good idea to dual boot, a game OS partition and a media OS partition, as well as a separate physical drive for media storage so that what the games might install into the OS don't mess up the media work.

Zack Birlew · December 24th, 2005, 10:09 AM

Gaming computers are no different than any others. The only difference these days is the choice in processors and SLI. SLI, as most of you probably already know, is the combined video signal of two videocards in either a 16x and 8x PCI Express slot combination or, if using one of the few newer motherboards, a full 16x and 16x PCI Express slot combination. The processors are relagated to only the middle level (ie. AMD Athlon 64 3200+ and above only) and the top tier higher end (ie. AMD Athlon FX 57 and AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+). Business computers use primarily Intel processors for some reason, but AMD is gaining ground. RAID has always been an option for any computer, it's not hard to implement at all. Everything else is the same basically. Motherboards often are chosen amongst the third party brands such as ASUS, Gigabyte, Abit, ect. and they all tend to give the same features a lot of the time but at different levels of performance effectiveness. Business computers use basic brand names for their motherboards such as Intel, Via, and Tyan or come up with their own designs on occasion if I remember correctly (Dealers like Dell, HP, Gateway, and Compaq did this back in the day, not sure if they still do or not).

I guess you could say that gaming computers are similar in terms of needs as video editors, we need the fastest. However, that depends on your level of video editing. In many cases, a system based around multiple AMD Opterons or Intel Xeon processors may work much better than just a single AMD Athlon FX or AMD Athlon X2. For effects and certain NLE's, this would be an ideal setup base, but you get rid of SLI in most cases. I forgot to say what SLI has the potential to do. SLI, since it is using two videocards to draw the scene, can grant visual effects people with, don't take me a hundred percent on this, with about 30-60% better OpenGL or Direct X performance depending on the videocard combination. Tyan has developed some dual processor motherboards that not only support SLI, but support the newer dual 16x PCI Express slot combination allowing for more bandwidth of the second videocard. So, why not get this over a regular gaming computer? Well, the answer isn't so simple. A lot of times business computers, the top end ones, are priced higher than gaming computers. For example, a high end Opteron or Xeon board could come in at around $1,000+ just for the motherboard itself! Then everything else piles up, the processors are higher priced than regular gaming ones, the RAM may need to be more expensive ECC RAM, and you may need a certain case to house the computer in depending on the motherboard style. Plus you can't very well go into a store and buy a Tyan board, at least the one you want. Fry's Electronics is the only place I've seen to sell Tyan, with the exception of some specific CompUSA's. So, this all means it depends on how much you can afford and what kind of work you do.

Some money saving tips with the high end business model may be to use one processor for now, such as buying an AMD Athlon FX-57 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 or one AMD Opteron processor for the time being and then upgrade to two AMD Opterons later down the road. You could use less RAM, such as 2gb instead of 4gb. So there are workarounds. If buying a box right off the bat, then the business model, if higher end, will most likely be priced higher than the gaming one.

Oh and by the way, Chaz, you're still going to be bogged down by built in software, but it's going to be relegated more to videogame-based stuff. Norton will still be there most likely, he's immortal. =)

Chaz Kempter · December 24th, 2005, 03:25 PM

If buying a box right off the bat, then the business model, if higher end, will most likely be priced higher than the gaming one.
Yes Jack.
That was what I was thinking because most of the gaming gurus tend to be young and broke therefore necessitating cheaper computers with essentially the same guts. (If you know what guts you want) It's the whole "market will bear" thingy. So It seems to me to be a cheaper alternative than the corporate type.

Jeff DeMaagd · December 25th, 2005, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Felis

A lot of times business computers, the top end ones, are priced higher than gaming computers. For example, a high end Opteron or Xeon board could come in at around $1,000+ just for the motherboard itself! Then everything else piles up, the processors are higher priced than regular gaming ones, the RAM may need to be more expensive ECC RAM, and you may need a certain case to house the computer in depending on the motherboard style. Plus you can't very well go into a store and buy a Tyan board, at least the one you want. Fry's Electronics is the only place I've seen to sell Tyan, with the exception of some specific CompUSA's. So, this all means it depends on how much you can afford and what kind of work you do.

A workstation board is going to be more expensive, but when I looked, a very decent one could be had in the $500 range. ECC memory is a bit more expensive, but I think it is one of the reasons why my computers are perfectly stable. Extended ATX cases aren't that hard to find, that's almost necessary if you want a dual socket motherboard with good expansion slots and lots of RAM slots.

I'm not sure what the point is in going to Fry's or any B&M for computer parts, I really hadn't been impressed with them, I just buy online with reputable businesses.

Ray Boltz · January 2nd, 2006, 03:56 PM

Go to alienware.com On the opening page under business, click on Workstations. Check out the MJ-12 7550i (intel) and the MJ-12 7550a (AMD) workstations. You can configure them and see how much it will cost. Doing it this way, you can also choose what software you want. I need to upgrade my computer (Sony 2.66Ghz)for HDV, and after looking at many different brands, I'm going with Alienware. You can also check their gaming computers and compare them with the workstation format. Good luck.

Chaz Kempter · January 2nd, 2006, 05:57 PM

Hey Ray,
I'm like a lot of guys who know their old computers are too slow for this HD editing but don't want to spend a fortune on a new one. I have the dough, but don't want to throw it around on something that works poorly. I took your advice and went to alien and plugged in all the specks (or there about) for a tower I would want and she clocked out at around 5 g's. However, going to newegg.com and hunting around for all the parts I think I can build one that will smoke the alien (with the limited choices alien offers) for around 3. Not everyone will tackle a ground up build but I'm thinking, Hey.... we're breakin' ground with the whole HD thing, so why not build to boot? How hard can it be??

Ray Boltz · January 2nd, 2006, 07:18 PM

Hi Chaz,
I was thinking of building one myself also, however I'm not that great in the electronics put together part. With my luck, I would put it together, and it would fry or something. The one I did configure was a little over 8Gs!! Of course I went with the Dual Xeon 3.8, ect, and that included a Samsung SyncMaster 244T 24" Monitor. I'm still going to read up on everything here though before I get anything. If you do decide to build your own, please keep us updated on your progress. Do you know if they publish a "Build your own computer for Dummy's" book? That might inspire me to try it on my own :).

Chaz Kempter · January 3rd, 2006, 01:03 PM

well this is what I have learned so far. The reason there are so many choices for the processer these days, is because they all seem to do different things. They all have different strenghts and weaknesses ... a gaming chip will blow the socks off an office chip when gaming... but the office chip returns the favor when it is in it's own element. So the trick is to find a processor which renders video the best and according to my limited research the dual core processors still blow the newest fastest single cores out of the water. (this is good because they are cheaper) It seems that when it comes to tasks involving video rendering (which seems to take the longest when editing HD) the dual core processors simply work better than the newest superfast single cores. Once again this is good pricewise. Being openminded as I am and only looking at the benchmark tests...It would seem to me (all other things aside) that the amd athlon 64 x2 4800+ dual core series are best for our needs. That being said the Intel pentium D series are just as good almost, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. It seems hyper threading is great for some things but not rendering video.

December 22nd, 2005, 01:43 PM	#1
Chaz Kempter Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 48	gaming computer for HD editing? It seems like the gaming guys need the same things the HD editing guys need. What am I missing?

December 23rd, 2005, 12:18 PM	#2
Chaz Kempter Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 48	Let me reiterate What I mean is wouldn't a tricked out gaming computer do a good job with hd editing?

December 23rd, 2005, 12:24 PM	#3
Rodi Kaya New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9	I think it certainly would, mainly comes down to processor power. __________________ www.rodikaya.co.uk

December 24th, 2005, 05:03 AM	#5
Jeff Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton, Colorado Posts: 386	PC for HD Would suggest a Striped RAID with 2 or more Hard drives - as much memory and CPU power you can muscle. The better the video and sound card the smoother your system will run overall. Any and all updates for your system...

December 24th, 2005, 10:09 AM	#8
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Gaming computers are no different than any others. The only difference these days is the choice in processors and SLI. SLI, as most of you probably already know, is the combined video signal of two videocards in either a 16x and 8x PCI Express slot combination or, if using one of the few newer motherboards, a full 16x and 16x PCI Express slot combination. The processors are relagated to only the middle level (ie. AMD Athlon 64 3200+ and above only) and the top tier higher end (ie. AMD Athlon FX 57 and AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+). Business computers use primarily Intel processors for some reason, but AMD is gaining ground. RAID has always been an option for any computer, it's not hard to implement at all. Everything else is the same basically. Motherboards often are chosen amongst the third party brands such as ASUS, Gigabyte, Abit, ect. and they all tend to give the same features a lot of the time but at different levels of performance effectiveness. Business computers use basic brand names for their motherboards such as Intel, Via, and Tyan or come up with their own designs on occasion if I remember correctly (Dealers like Dell, HP, Gateway, and Compaq did this back in the day, not sure if they still do or not). I guess you could say that gaming computers are similar in terms of needs as video editors, we need the fastest. However, that depends on your level of video editing. In many cases, a system based around multiple AMD Opterons or Intel Xeon processors may work much better than just a single AMD Athlon FX or AMD Athlon X2. For effects and certain NLE's, this would be an ideal setup base, but you get rid of SLI in most cases. I forgot to say what SLI has the potential to do. SLI, since it is using two videocards to draw the scene, can grant visual effects people with, don't take me a hundred percent on this, with about 30-60% better OpenGL or Direct X performance depending on the videocard combination. Tyan has developed some dual processor motherboards that not only support SLI, but support the newer dual 16x PCI Express slot combination allowing for more bandwidth of the second videocard. So, why not get this over a regular gaming computer? Well, the answer isn't so simple. A lot of times business computers, the top end ones, are priced higher than gaming computers. For example, a high end Opteron or Xeon board could come in at around $1,000+ just for the motherboard itself! Then everything else piles up, the processors are higher priced than regular gaming ones, the RAM may need to be more expensive ECC RAM, and you may need a certain case to house the computer in depending on the motherboard style. Plus you can't very well go into a store and buy a Tyan board, at least the one you want. Fry's Electronics is the only place I've seen to sell Tyan, with the exception of some specific CompUSA's. So, this all means it depends on how much you can afford and what kind of work you do. Some money saving tips with the high end business model may be to use one processor for now, such as buying an AMD Athlon FX-57 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 or one AMD Opteron processor for the time being and then upgrade to two AMD Opterons later down the road. You could use less RAM, such as 2gb instead of 4gb. So there are workarounds. If buying a box right off the bat, then the business model, if higher end, will most likely be priced higher than the gaming one. Oh and by the way, Chaz, you're still going to be bogged down by built in software, but it's going to be relegated more to videogame-based stuff. Norton will still be there most likely, he's immortal. =) __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

December 24th, 2005, 08:01 AM	#6
Chaz Kempter Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 48	Yes, and it would also seem to me that the gaming computer is different than the "consumer" computer in that the gaming does not have to have all the "baggage" software that tends to slow you down. Am I correct? (You know, the 25 internet providers with seperate demos..... the office with fax stuff .... the dad-gum make a brithday card for grandma stuff ......the this-is-your-new-computer-push-this-button-to-turn-on walk through demo stuff...etc. etc. etc. stuff.)

December 24th, 2005, 03:25 PM	#9
Chaz Kempter Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 48	If buying a box right off the bat, then the business model, if higher end, will most likely be priced higher than the gaming one. Yes Jack. That was what I was thinking because most of the gaming gurus tend to be young and broke therefore necessitating cheaper computers with essentially the same guts. (If you know what guts you want) It's the whole "market will bear" thingy. So It seems to me to be a cheaper alternative than the corporate type.

January 2nd, 2006, 03:56 PM	#11
Ray Boltz Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Clifton Park, NY Posts: 50	Go to alienware.com On the opening page under business, click on Workstations. Check out the MJ-12 7550i (intel) and the MJ-12 7550a (AMD) workstations. You can configure them and see how much it will cost. Doing it this way, you can also choose what software you want. I need to upgrade my computer (Sony 2.66Ghz)for HDV, and after looking at many different brands, I'm going with Alienware. You can also check their gaming computers and compare them with the workstation format. Good luck.

January 2nd, 2006, 05:57 PM	#12
Chaz Kempter Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 48	yikes!!! Hey Ray, I'm like a lot of guys who know their old computers are too slow for this HD editing but don't want to spend a fortune on a new one. I have the dough, but don't want to throw it around on something that works poorly. I took your advice and went to alien and plugged in all the specks (or there about) for a tower I would want and she clocked out at around 5 g's. However, going to newegg.com and hunting around for all the parts I think I can build one that will smoke the alien (with the limited choices alien offers) for around 3. Not everyone will tackle a ground up build but I'm thinking, Hey.... we're breakin' ground with the whole HD thing, so why not build to boot? How hard can it be??

January 2nd, 2006, 07:18 PM	#13
Ray Boltz Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Clifton Park, NY Posts: 50	Hi Chaz, I was thinking of building one myself also, however I'm not that great in the electronics put together part. With my luck, I would put it together, and it would fry or something. The one I did configure was a little over 8Gs!! Of course I went with the Dual Xeon 3.8, ect, and that included a Samsung SyncMaster 244T 24" Monitor. I'm still going to read up on everything here though before I get anything. If you do decide to build your own, please keep us updated on your progress. Do you know if they publish a "Build your own computer for Dummy's" book? That might inspire me to try it on my own :).

January 3rd, 2006, 01:03 PM	#14
Chaz Kempter Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 48	well this is what I have learned so far. The reason there are so many choices for the processer these days, is because they all seem to do different things. They all have different strenghts and weaknesses ... a gaming chip will blow the socks off an office chip when gaming... but the office chip returns the favor when it is in it's own element. So the trick is to find a processor which renders video the best and according to my limited research the dual core processors still blow the newest fastest single cores out of the water. (this is good because they are cheaper) It seems that when it comes to tasks involving video rendering (which seems to take the longest when editing HD) the dual core processors simply work better than the newest superfast single cores. Once again this is good pricewise. Being openminded as I am and only looking at the benchmark tests...It would seem to me (all other things aside) that the amd athlon 64 x2 4800+ dual core series are best for our needs. That being said the Intel pentium D series are just as good almost, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. It seems hyper threading is great for some things but not rendering video.