What is the difference between the V1U and V1E in progressive mode? at DVinfo.net

Kevin Boyd · August 23rd, 2007, 11:02 AM

I am UK based so have the V1E PAL camera. I am reading specs on the web about the V1U which claims to have 24P. In the manual for my V1E it states I have 25P "just like film", which is of course wrong, as film is 24P. Maybe just bad translation from the Japanese?

So can someone clarify the difference between the V1U and V1E in progressive mode.

Thx

Kevin

K.C. Luke · August 23rd, 2007, 07:30 PM

Hi Kevin

Our local SG is PAL as V1E on progressive mode only 25p It do not have 24p. May be V1U NTSC is 24p progressive.

http://www.theprofessionaledge.ca/ar...rticle_05.html

Steve Mullen · August 23rd, 2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Boyd

So can someone clarify the difference between the V1U and V1E in progressive mode.

The PAL units capture at 25p -- same as film in Region 50 countries -- while the NTSC units run at 24p.

The PAL units record 25p using 1-2 pulldown in 50i -- while the NTSC units record 24p using 2-3 pulldown in 60i.

Kevin Boyd · August 24th, 2007, 03:16 AM

The PAL units capture at 25p -- same as film in Region 50 countries

AFAIK Film is 24 frames per second all over the world and not just in USA?

Piotr Wozniacki · August 24th, 2007, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Boyd

The PAL units capture at 25p -- same as film in Region 50 countries

AFAIK Film is 24 frames per second all over the world and not just in USA?

I guess Steve means the video film ;>)

Kevin Boyd · August 24th, 2007, 04:23 AM

I suppose the E in V1E stands for England (don't know what the Welsh think of that!) and V1U stands for United States of America.

Odd though that Sony give the Americans true 24p and we brits get a cludged 25p. Though I suppose it does make the editing easier!

Piotr Wozniacki · August 24th, 2007, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Boyd

I suppose the E in V1E stands for England (don't know what the Welsh think of that!) and V1U stands for United States of America.

Odd though that Sony give the Americans true 24p and we brits get a cludged 25p. Though I suppose it does make the editing easier!

If so, then I'm reserving V1P for Poland, and our friends in the Pacific Region are left without their own, dedicated model;>)

Mikko Lopponen · August 24th, 2007, 04:59 AM

E = europe.

There's nothing odd about it. Everything is played at 25 fps here. 24fps movies are sped up to get to 25.

Piotr Wozniacki · August 24th, 2007, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikko Lopponen

E = europe.

There's nothing odd about it. Everything is played at 25 fps here. 24fps movies are sped up to get to 25.

Yeah... In broadcast, yes. The problem starts with the new video delivery media (BD/HD DVD) which apparently have adopted 24p as de facto standard.

Even new HDTVs are appearing with special 24p mode (see Pioneer's Kuro).

So, ease of editing 25p when compared to 24p - yes. Othewise, I'm afraid we've been hosed.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 24th, 2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

So, ease of editing 25p when compared to 24p - yes. Othewise, I'm afraid we've been hosed.

Not really. Intelligence (and past history) have had producers shooting at 25p vs 24p. It's easier math, looks identical to 24p, and anyone that claims that they can view a 25p stream next to a 24p stream and tell the difference is either gonna be very, very lucky, or they're a liar.
No one can tell a 1fps difference visually.
Look at how many posts in XXXX forums are about pulldown. With 25p, this isn't an issue.
I'd submit there are some significant benefits to 25p.

Piotr Wozniacki · August 24th, 2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Not really. Intelligence (and past history) have had producers shooting at 25p vs 24p. It's easier math, looks identical to 24p, and anyone that claims that they can view a 25p stream next to a 24p stream and tell the difference is either gonna be very, very lucky, or they're a liar.
No one can tell a 1fps difference visually.
Look at how many posts in XXXX forums are about pulldown. With 25p, this isn't an issue.
I'd submit there are some significant benefits to 25p.

Spot, I did mention editing being much easier, with no pull-down removal stuff etc. However, the BD specs do not list 25p at all, and HD DVD - well, the only European model of the Toshiba player is still waiting for the promised firmware upgrade to enable 25p compatibility...

Unless you mean a workflow where I do all edits of native 25p m2t's (as I've been doing so far), but then - at the final stage - render it out to a 24p MPEG-2 file, ready to burn on BD.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 24th, 2007, 09:18 AM

Lemme get this project off my table, I'll dig up some 25p V1 footage, and render as 25p for BD. I'll burn it and see if I can play it back. Just because there is no spec listed doesn't mean it won't work.
Meanwhile, anyone else with a BD burner and player is invited to do the same.
Render a sequence of frames with a different letter or number in each frame, and you'll be able to see if the player is managing any frame conversion.
I've never worried about 25p on HD delivery in the past, so haven't looked closely at whether this is a problem (for real, or just a missing bit of info).

Piotr Wozniacki · August 24th, 2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Lemme get this project off my table, I'll dig up some 25p V1 footage, and render as 25p for BD. I'll burn it and see if I can play it back. Just because there is no spec listed doesn't mean it won't work.
Meanwhile, anyone else with a BD burner and player is invited to do the same.
Render a sequence of frames with a different letter or number in each frame, and you'll be able to see if the player is managing any frame conversion.
I've never worried about 25p on HD delivery in the past, so haven't looked closely at whether this is a problem (for real, or just a missing bit of info).

I'm waiting with great anticipation to your experiment output, Douglas - thanks! I can't do it myself, as I don't own a BD/HD DVD burner yet.

Anyway, it's relatively easy to change the fps from 25 to 24 in Vegas, while keeping the clip length and audio pitch - it can add some time to the final render, though... So if it proves 25p can play on a BD player with no problems, I'll only be very glad!

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 24th, 2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

I'm waiting with great anticipation to your experiment output, Douglas - thanks! I can't do it myself, as I don't own a BD/HD DVD burner yet.

Anyway, it's relatively easy to change the fps from 25 to 24 in Vegas, while keeping the clip length and audio pitch - it can add some time to the final render, though... So if it proves 25p can play on a BD player with no problems, I'll only be very glad!

Why does it take time? It's a one button operation.

Piotr Wozniacki · August 24th, 2007, 09:45 AM

Of course I mean render time, not that for pressing the buttons (and there's more than one involved) ;>)

August 23rd, 2007, 11:02 AM	#1
Kevin Boyd Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 36	What is the difference between the V1U and V1E in progressive mode? I am UK based so have the V1E PAL camera. I am reading specs on the web about the V1U which claims to have 24P. In the manual for my V1E it states I have 25P "just like film", which is of course wrong, as film is 24P. Maybe just bad translation from the Japanese? So can someone clarify the difference between the V1U and V1E in progressive mode. Thx Kevin

August 23rd, 2007, 07:30 PM	#2
K.C. Luke Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 173	Hi Kevin Our local SG is PAL as V1E on progressive mode only 25p It do not have 24p. May be V1U NTSC is 24p progressive. http://www.theprofessionaledge.ca/ar...rticle_05.html __________________ Edit on Adobe Creative Suite Production Premium CS5 Mac 64BIT

August 24th, 2007, 09:18 AM	#12
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Lemme get this project off my table, I'll dig up some 25p V1 footage, and render as 25p for BD. I'll burn it and see if I can play it back. Just because there is no spec listed doesn't mean it won't work. Meanwhile, anyone else with a BD burner and player is invited to do the same. Render a sequence of frames with a different letter or number in each frame, and you'll be able to see if the player is managing any frame conversion. I've never worried about 25p on HD delivery in the past, so haven't looked closely at whether this is a problem (for real, or just a missing bit of info). __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

August 24th, 2007, 09:45 AM	#15
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Of course I mean render time, not that for pressing the buttons (and there's more than one involved) ;>) __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

August 24th, 2007, 03:16 AM	#4
Kevin Boyd Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 36	The PAL units capture at 25p -- same as film in Region 50 countries AFAIK Film is 24 frames per second all over the world and not just in USA?

August 24th, 2007, 04:23 AM	#6
Kevin Boyd Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 36	I suppose the E in V1E stands for England (don't know what the Welsh think of that!) and V1U stands for United States of America. Odd though that Sony give the Americans true 24p and we brits get a cludged 25p. Though I suppose it does make the editing easier!

August 24th, 2007, 04:59 AM	#8
Mikko Lopponen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 393	E = europe. There's nothing odd about it. Everything is played at 25 fps here. 24fps movies are sped up to get to 25.