VCL-0862K wide angle adapter -- zoom though or not? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7

Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 10th, 2007, 10:16 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto, ON Canada
Posts: 141
VCL-0862K wide angle adapter -- zoom though or not?

Arrrrhhhhhhhhhhgggg! I just checked some interview footage I shot a couple of weeks ago using one of our two HVR-V1U camcorders. I am not too happy to see that the interviews are mostly unusable.

We shot some interviews using the Sony VCL-0862K wide angle adaper lens. The camera was in manual focus. We set up the focus carefully by zooming in (using expanded focus) on the subjects face to ensure a nice tight focus.

When playing back the footage the image goes really soft when we reframe the shots thoughout the interviews. When going from a nicely focused close up to a medium shot (waist up) the image loses focus. And when going really wide it gets super soft. But when zooming in again the focus is perfect.

Like Lee's postings regarding back focus, maybe our cameras have the same problem as his. But, I also wonder in the wide angle adapter might not be a zoom through friendly lens. Is this likely? I haven't heard that the Sony 0862k has focal issues at various zoom points.

The interview that I looked at where I noticed problems had the subject about 20 feet from the lens. The aperture was open to 2.4 and gain was 0 db. I wouldn't expect a problem.

Today I guess I'll have to run a batch of tests to:
1. See if both V1U's perform the same with and without the wide angle adapter.
2. See if macro on / off makes a difference.
3. See if the problem exists with the native lens when using manual zooms at various focal points.

If anyone can give some insight into what the problem might be, this would be very helpful. It's hard to battle with Sony when one doesn't really have a handle on where the problem is coming from.

Thanks!

Ian
Ian Campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 10:59 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 326
Ian:
What you're describing is exactly what I experienced without the Wide Angle Adapter. I racking the focus to infinity after you frame the shot will yield a sharp image regardless of the focus distance.

While my camera is at Sony I rented a Z1U that came with a Sony VCLHG0872 wide angle adapter (screws on the front of the lens). I would assume that the glass is similar to the VCL-0862K. I had no focus issues from full telephoto to wide and in between.
__________________
www.leebergermedia.com
Lee Berger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 11:24 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto, ON Canada
Posts: 141
Thank you Lee.

Thanks Lee.

I appreciate your input - especially regarding your experience with the wide adapter for the Z1U. I too would assume that if there were no zoom though issues with that lens for the Z1U, then there likely shouldn't be for the V1 and its wide adapter.

Lee, I have found in the past that Sony can be difficult to motivate in problem solving when it comes to performace issues, etc. Was there a way you presented your case that made them fully understand? In the past I've had issues with cameras that were definate problems that Sony didn't know how to pin-point or didn't know how to resolve. The end result has been that the problem has been consider "within spec". This back focus problem clearly isn't. I just hope that Sony can do something to remedy the problem without several visits to their repair center.

I hope that I can duplicate the problem later today. I hope the issue isn't something affecting both cameras.

Thanks again . . .

Ian

I
Ian Campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Campbell View Post
Was there a way you presented your case that made them fully understand?
The best I could do was to include a videotape of the problem with me narrating each step. The videotape makes the issue quite clear.

There is always the chance that the "corporate giant" will dismiss my problem and I'll be forced to consider a "work around." Auto focus seems to work, except at full wide where it always wants to focus to infinity regardless of the focus distance to the subject.

I look forward to your test results.
__________________
www.leebergermedia.com
Lee Berger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 01:22 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
I have no focus issues with my V1E (with or w/o the K adapter) whatsoever, so your problems are certainly not "within the specs".

When you have the converter on, remember to set the OIS to "WIDE".

Oh, and yes, the VCL-HG0862K is fully zoom-through!
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; November 11th, 2007 at 05:56 AM. Reason: corrected name of OIS setting
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 06:39 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto, ON Canada
Posts: 141
Thanks Lee and Piotr . . .

I have spent a couple of hrs. trying to duplicate the HUGE back focus issue with both my V1U's. I know which cam caused the problem with the wide-angle adapter. Before taking the camera to Sony I wanted to be certain the back focus problem was only the fault of one camera. Funny thing, I do see that the one camera has a VERY SLIGHT back focus problem ... but I can't get it to perform as badly as it did in the interview done a couple of weeks ago. Now the pic is only slightly soft when going off a tight face shot to a wider medium shot, for example.

Piotr, the steady shot setting was set to accomodate the wide angle adapter and the macro at the time, I believe was disengaged.

Today the tests I ran had the macro setting both on and off for a full battery of tests. I will take the camera to Sony, but it certainly isn't as bad as I had experienced in the interview shot before.

Questions:

1. Can certain camera settings perhaps trigger something looking like a back foucs problem in certain lighting, etc.?

2. What tests did you do to actually determine the back focus error? I did mine with a subject about 23 ft. and 45 ft. from the camera. Indoors and outdoors.

3. How soft did your image get when zooming out from what you had focused on? Mine is slightly soft -- but not by too much with the tests done today.

Thanks!

Ian
Ian Campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 06:47 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Placentia, Calif
Posts: 549
I looked high and low for the setting for Wide Convert, OIS setting, which setting is it under, thanks
Hugh Mobley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 07:06 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto, ON Canada
Posts: 141
Hi, Hugh . . .

The wide convert setting is found under the camera settings ... look for steady shot. You will find the setting there for wide, standand and soft.

Hope this helps . . .

Ian
Ian Campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 11:20 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Placentia, Calif
Posts: 549
yes, thanks I am trying a Raynox wide angle
Hugh Mobley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2007, 06:39 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Campbell View Post
2. What tests did you do to actually determine the back focus error? I did mine with a subject about 23 ft. and 45 ft. from the camera. Indoors and outdoors.

3. How soft did your image get when zooming out from what you had focused on? Mine is slightly soft -- but not by too much with the tests done today.

Ian
Check out the still images from my original post. I was 8.5 feet from the target, at f 1.8. Be sure to click on the images for the larger size as they all look sharp in the thumbs.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....11&postcount=1
__________________
www.leebergermedia.com
Lee Berger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2007, 10:03 AM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto, ON Canada
Posts: 141
Thanks again Lee for the info. regarding your testing. I hope later today to do more tests so that I can have the camera (if needed) all ready to take to Sony tomorrow (Monday).

The pics of your hat really indicate a problem, much like what I've found with my camera. I will test, as you did, to see if infinity or a focus "touch up" makes the shot appear better focused when zoomed out somewhat. I should have thought to do this yesterday. It is apparent, with your camera, that you are able to achieve much better focus by going to infinity than what the camera should do on its own after a tight focus when zoomed in.

Please let us know what Sony says / does this time around. From experience I've found that Sony will try to convince the owner that the problem is a byproduct of misuse, etc. Like you mentioned, Sony suggested that you shouldn't have been using the cam with the macro function engaged. This is bad advice from their service dept. since their testing would indicate, as you know, that it doesn't make a difference if macro is engaged or not. I too find this setting makes no difference. If macro was going to present a problem when manually focusing and zooming than they likely wouldn't have made the macro setting a camera default -- which Sony did.

All the best with round two in your quest for back focus to be repaired / resolved.

It will be interesting to know what needs to be done to the camera to fix such a problem.

Thanks Lee.

Ian

P.S. Make sure that Sony sees the skull and cross bones pics. Not only do they show the back focus issue nicely . . . Sony will also know you mean business! :)
Ian Campbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2007, 11:32 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Campbell View Post
P.S. Make sure that Sony sees the skull and cross bones pics. Not only do they show the back focus issue nicely . . . Sony will also know you mean business! :)
The pics are very revealing, however I think the videotape (if they'll view it) is more revealing as it shows the process in real time. They'll see me zoom in fully, set the focus, and zoom out to set the framing. Then they'll see me rack the focus to compensate. All the while I'm narrating my actions. BTW, they received the camera last Monday, but when I called on Friday it had yet to make it to a bench. They recommended I call back this coming Friday.

Ian, when you do your test can you also snap some still shots and post them as I did. It would be worthy to have two examples that I can point them to.

Thanks,
Lee
__________________
www.leebergermedia.com
Lee Berger is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:24 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network