Bottom line: is the audio any kind of a dealbreaker? at DVinfo.net

Marc Faletti · December 7th, 2007, 11:47 AM

Hi all!

Time to upgrade my camera setup, and while the EX1 is hard to get and in early-adopter phase, I've been thinking about the V1U. I've poured over the previous threads on the subject, but there surprisingly few dedicated to the audio problems noted by folks -- namely, that the V1U clips audio lower than 1220Hz.

I've seen Douglas Spotted Eagle dismiss it, and Piotr indicate that he can work around it in post, so I know they've found it manageable. Most of the time, I expect I would, too, but occasionally I will be asked to record live music shows, and I can't fathom how 1220Hz clipping wouldn't be crippling.

So I would love to know if anyone else out there has had good success with live music on the V1U (any audio clips out there?) and if any V1U owners in general are truly frustrated with this problem.

Thanks!
Marc

John Cline · December 7th, 2007, 12:56 PM

I don't have any problem with the audio on the V1u. There is a little roll-off in the bottom end, but it certainly isn't a "deal breaker."

Svein Rune Skilnand · December 7th, 2007, 01:48 PM

I used to own 2 V1E PAL cameras to be used for live events and concerts.

The only way I could get the audio signal from a sound board was switching it to the mic- position, I never got it working with the line- in.

The mic- signal clipped easily even tough I set the level to 2-3 and the sound board to almost no signal output. I tried 4 different cameras with no luck. I would have ruined quite a few recordings if had`nt insisted on using a minidisc for recording the audio.

Perhaps the NTSC camera is different? Still I would prefer to record to minidisc or solid state media or something and sync it in post. This will give you a lot better audio with a completely different dynamic.

I also tried quite a few microphones as well turning the level down, with the same result.The audio clips easily.

I also found I could`nt set different levels for the audio. On my old Panasonic I never had any of these problems. I could also set one channel higher and the other lower, so if one clipped I still had good backup.

I sold mine and went back to Panasonic. The V1 will give you great images tough.

John Cline · December 7th, 2007, 02:15 PM

Just for the record, I've never had any of the problems that Svein describes on my NTSC V1u.

Marc Faletti · December 7th, 2007, 02:29 PM

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

John, have you recorded any live music? Just curious. I am comfortable "bumping" the low end in post, but I would be wary if it was barely audible. Sounds like that's not your experience though...

Also, any other takes? Thanks again!

Ed Quinto · December 7th, 2007, 02:59 PM

Clipping? My only complaint is that my sound person gives me low audio. Then again I dont record live music, just speech.

John Cline · December 7th, 2007, 04:54 PM

Marc,

Yes, I record live music all the time. In fact, I'm doing a 4-camera HD shoot tonight of a big band at a local theater. We're using four V1u cameras feeding their HDMI outputs into Blackmagic Intensity Pro cards installed in four separate computers thus bypassing the HDV compression altogether. We're also using a separate 48-track audio recorder, but I can take a line-level stereo mix from the house soundboard and feed the same signal into one of the V1s and a Zoom H4 recorder at 48k/24bit and then measure the difference in a real-world application.

On those occasions when I have used just the V1 audio, whether a line input from a mixer or a camera-mounted Audio Technica AT-825 stereo mic, there has certainly been enough bottom end to play with in post. It's not like the bottom end is non-existent, it's just rolled off a bit.

John

Leslie Wand · December 7th, 2007, 04:55 PM

use v1p mainly for doco, talking heads - no problems at all with audio. just did a freebie 'opera in the church' for the local committee, and sent a dvd down to the opera music master for clearance and got an email back saying the sound was fantastic (using an senn. me80) under the circumstances...

no complaints here

leslie

Marc Faletti · December 7th, 2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cline

Marc,

Yes, I record live music all the time. In fact, I'm doing a 4-camera HD shoot tonight of a big band at a local theater. We're using four V1u cameras feeding their HDMI outputs into Blackmagic Intensity Pro cards installed in four separate computers thus bypassing the HDV compression altogether. We're also using a separate 48-track audio recorder, but I can take a line-level stereo mix from the house soundboard and feed the same signal into one of the V1s and a Zoom H4 recorder at 48k/24bit and then measure the difference in a real-world application.

John

John,

Sounds like fun! I'll be more in the packed-bar rock scene 'round Austin (at least some of the time), so I'll need to be mobile. I'd love to see the results of a test like that for sure...

Bob Grant · December 7th, 2007, 10:14 PM

Recording from a desk is problematic regardless of the camera. What comes out of a desk feeding a sound reinforcement system can be anything. The desk might be setup to around 0dBm however the person driving it sets the output to produce the desired sound level in the venue, not for the benefit of your camera. I've gotten levels from +10 to -40 out of desks, don't immediately blame the camera if you have problems with feeds from desks. Having a couple of balanced attenuators, line isolators and maybe even a line amplifier in the kit is a good idea when taking feeds from desks.
Also keep in mind that the feed might not have everything in it e.g. if the drums were loud enough by themselves they will not be in the mix out of the desk.

December 7th, 2007, 11:47 AM	#1
Marc Faletti Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 50	Bottom line: is the audio any kind of a dealbreaker? Hi all! Time to upgrade my camera setup, and while the EX1 is hard to get and in early-adopter phase, I've been thinking about the V1U. I've poured over the previous threads on the subject, but there surprisingly few dedicated to the audio problems noted by folks -- namely, that the V1U clips audio lower than 1220Hz. I've seen Douglas Spotted Eagle dismiss it, and Piotr indicate that he can work around it in post, so I know they've found it manageable. Most of the time, I expect I would, too, but occasionally I will be asked to record live music shows, and I can't fathom how 1220Hz clipping wouldn't be crippling. So I would love to know if anyone else out there has had good success with live music on the V1U (any audio clips out there?) and if any V1U owners in general are truly frustrated with this problem. Thanks! Marc

December 7th, 2007, 12:56 PM	#2
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	I don't have any problem with the audio on the V1u. There is a little roll-off in the bottom end, but it certainly isn't a "deal breaker."

December 7th, 2007, 01:48 PM	#3
Svein Rune Skilnand Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fidjeland, Norway Posts: 289	I used to own 2 V1E PAL cameras to be used for live events and concerts. The only way I could get the audio signal from a sound board was switching it to the mic- position, I never got it working with the line- in. The mic- signal clipped easily even tough I set the level to 2-3 and the sound board to almost no signal output. I tried 4 different cameras with no luck. I would have ruined quite a few recordings if had`nt insisted on using a minidisc for recording the audio. Perhaps the NTSC camera is different? Still I would prefer to record to minidisc or solid state media or something and sync it in post. This will give you a lot better audio with a completely different dynamic. I also tried quite a few microphones as well turning the level down, with the same result.The audio clips easily. I also found I could`nt set different levels for the audio. On my old Panasonic I never had any of these problems. I could also set one channel higher and the other lower, so if one clipped I still had good backup. I sold mine and went back to Panasonic. The V1 will give you great images tough.

December 7th, 2007, 02:15 PM	#4
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Just for the record, I've never had any of the problems that Svein describes on my NTSC V1u.

December 7th, 2007, 02:29 PM	#5
Marc Faletti Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 50	Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. John, have you recorded any live music? Just curious. I am comfortable "bumping" the low end in post, but I would be wary if it was barely audible. Sounds like that's not your experience though... Also, any other takes? Thanks again!

December 7th, 2007, 02:59 PM	#6
Ed Quinto Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 44	Clipping? My only complaint is that my sound person gives me low audio. Then again I dont record live music, just speech.

December 7th, 2007, 04:54 PM	#7
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Marc, Yes, I record live music all the time. In fact, I'm doing a 4-camera HD shoot tonight of a big band at a local theater. We're using four V1u cameras feeding their HDMI outputs into Blackmagic Intensity Pro cards installed in four separate computers thus bypassing the HDV compression altogether. We're also using a separate 48-track audio recorder, but I can take a line-level stereo mix from the house soundboard and feed the same signal into one of the V1s and a Zoom H4 recorder at 48k/24bit and then measure the difference in a real-world application. On those occasions when I have used just the V1 audio, whether a line input from a mixer or a camera-mounted Audio Technica AT-825 stereo mic, there has certainly been enough bottom end to play with in post. It's not like the bottom end is non-existent, it's just rolled off a bit. John

December 7th, 2007, 04:55 PM	#8
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	use v1p mainly for doco, talking heads - no problems at all with audio. just did a freebie 'opera in the church' for the local committee, and sent a dvd down to the opera music master for clearance and got an email back saying the sound was fantastic (using an senn. me80) under the circumstances... no complaints here leslie

December 7th, 2007, 10:14 PM	#10
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Recording from a desk is problematic regardless of the camera. What comes out of a desk feeding a sound reinforcement system can be anything. The desk might be setup to around 0dBm however the person driving it sets the output to produce the desired sound level in the venue, not for the benefit of your camera. I've gotten levels from +10 to -40 out of desks, don't immediately blame the camera if you have problems with feeds from desks. Having a couple of balanced attenuators, line isolators and maybe even a line amplifier in the kit is a good idea when taking feeds from desks. Also keep in mind that the feed might not have everything in it e.g. if the drums were loud enough by themselves they will not be in the mix out of the desk.