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Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


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Old March 6th, 2008, 09:50 AM   #1
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20 optical zoom

Looking for a sony prosumer camera with a 20 optical zoom. I know I saw an HD Sony with 20x but did they make a standard in 20x?
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Old March 6th, 2008, 03:31 PM   #2
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Dont think so; Their standard def prosumers if I remember correctly, were 12x (VX2100, PD170). The Canon XM2 (GL2) is a hand held SD cam that's 20x.

Still good!
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Old March 6th, 2008, 03:39 PM   #3
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Or, if the 20x lens is that important to you, just pick up an HVR-V1U and switch over to DV/DVCAM mode. You'll have the benefit of the lens you want, and then whenever you feel like it, you can switch over to HD.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 06:08 PM   #4
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The Sony FX7 had 20x optical zoom.

edit: oops, sorry, just noticed you are looking for an SD prosumer cam with 20x zoom.

Mike
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Old March 6th, 2008, 07:03 PM   #5
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But your point is well-taken nonetheless. As the FX7 has been discontinued, many are available at very low closeout prices -- less than a used VX.

One could just shoot in DV mode with one of these.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:01 PM   #6
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But your point is well-taken nonetheless. As the FX7 has been discontinued, many are available at very low closeout prices -- less than a used VX....
Where you can find them at reputable sites, the price of the FX7 has really gone up big time.
Mike
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Old March 8th, 2008, 04:15 PM   #7
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I bought two last weekend from my local Sony Style store -- one brand new sealed in box for $2599 (about $200 less than B&H had them for, when they had new ones) and the display unit for $1560 (40% off the $2599) that came with everything except the box.

May still be a few left around the country. Last time they ran an inventory check for me there were about 70 left in Sony facilities around the country. About 33 were in service facilities, and it's possible they could show up in Outlets as refurbs eventually. None in Outlets yet but keep checking.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 07:12 PM   #8
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I bought two last weekend from my local Sony Style store -- one brand new sealed in box for $2599 (about $200 less than B&H had them for, when they had new ones) and the display unit for $1560 (40% off the $2599) that came with everything except the box.

May still be a few left around the country. Last time they ran an inventory check for me there were about 70 left in Sony facilities around the country. About 33 were in service facilities, and it's possible they could show up in Outlets as refurbs eventually. None in Outlets yet but keep checking.
How do you find these things? When I check places, it says "out of stock".
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Old March 8th, 2008, 07:43 PM   #9
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Usually I have no luck at all in this regard. But I was really curious so I just picked up the phone and called them.

I usually assume they're lying to me anyway (or are too lazy to check), so often I just drive there and look at what they have.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 05:50 PM   #10
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They've now arrived at the Outlet stores but not the Online Outlet. Same clearance price as in the Sony Style Stores -- $2599. According to today's inventory search, there are about 50 nationwide available for sale, all at Sony Outlets.

Mike, the Aurora outlet has 4 in stock. There are 5 in Gilroy, CA, and eight (if the guy is to be believed) elsewhere in California. My guess is Camarillo. My local outlet north of Seattle has just one.

Sorry for the duplicate post of one in the other thread but just wanted to make sure anyone who really wanted one of these had the info...

Last edited by Adam Gold; March 11th, 2008 at 07:21 PM.
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Old March 12th, 2008, 09:46 AM   #11
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What is the difference in ccd vs cmos ? And how would you compare the GL2 to the FX7
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Old March 12th, 2008, 12:30 PM   #12
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There are much better technical experts than I on this forum, but in a practical sense I think there is very little real difference in the pictures they take. Footage from my FX7s (3CMOS) matches almost perfectly with that from my FX1 (3CCD).

Can't comment on the GL2, but I think you have your answer on the other thread. Is the GL2 16:9 native?
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Old March 12th, 2008, 01:04 PM   #13
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yes and thank you!
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Old March 15th, 2008, 12:36 AM   #14
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What is the difference in ccd vs cmos ? And how would you compare the GL2 to the FX7
Mostly what you are going to hear regarding CCD vs CMOS sensors is the global shutter vs rolling shutter. Because the way a rolling shutter works (top to bottom exposing parts of an image frame at different times), it's possible to get certain weird artifacts using a CMOS camera, like partial exposure, skew and wobble. Rolling shutter artifacts result mainly from fast motion or slower frame rates, but these shutter artifacts must be understood and dealt with.

Since CCD cameras employ a global shutter (exposes a full image frame at the same time), they do not suffer such artifacts. IT and FIT CCDs have the read-out column next to the pixel, so it's only a one-pixel transfer to a light-blocked "storage" area, and the charge can be transfered globally to this pixel storage area, allowing the pixel to reset and start integration again on a global scale.

CMOS architectures are a lot different than a FIT or IT CCD. The most common CMOS design is a 3-transistor APS architecture (3T), and there is no capacity in this design for a "storage" area, like IT and FIT CCDs have. Therefore, a pixel value cannot be integrating and read out at the same time. Instead, in a 3T design, a row must be read out, reset, and then it can begin integrating again. This happens on a row-by-row basis all the way down the chip, hence the "rolling shutter". However, CMOS sensors are capable of using a global shutter. By adding more transitors per pixel creates a temporary storage area and enables the pixel in the CMOS chip to offload it's charge and begin integrating again, while the storage area is read-out, but for practical reasons (to save money), all lower cost cameras with CMOS sensors to date, as far as I know, employ a rolling shutter.

Other differences are:

Bright light causes vertical smear in CCDs, virtually no vertical smear with CMOS chips.

CMOS sensors are more energy efficient than CCDs

The newer CMOS sensors are documented to be better for high definition video because they don't suffer a noise increase as the resolution increases, like CCDs do.

CMOS sensors were said to have a poorer low light sensitivity than CCDs, but that information was based on previously-designed CMOS chips. The newer ones have been documented to have about the same sensitivity as CCDs.

The above is a basic explanation of the different characteristics of the two sensors. I hope this has been helpful.


Note: Some facts for this comment were taken from Jason Rodriguez, of the engineering team behind the Silicon Imaging SI-2K CMOS camera.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Adam Gold View Post
They've now arrived at the Outlet stores but not the Online Outlet. Same clearance price as in the Sony Style Stores -- $2599. According to today's inventory search, there are about 50 nationwide available for sale, all at Sony Outlets.

Mike, the Aurora outlet has 4 in stock. There are 5 in Gilroy, CA, and eight (if the guy is to be believed) elsewhere in California. My guess is Camarillo. My local outlet north of Seattle has just one.

Sorry for the duplicate post of one in the other thread but just wanted to make sure anyone who really wanted one of these had the info...
Adam,

The V1U can be bought right now from a reputable dealer for $3349.90 before the $300 Sony rebate which brings the price down to $3050.

Do you think the FX7 is still a better deal for just $450 less than a V1U?

Now I would have jumped at that $1600 display one!!!
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