HDMI on the V1? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7

Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7
Pro and consumer versions of this Sony 3-CMOS HDV camcorder.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 3rd, 2006, 03:20 AM   #16
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 1,961
Council meeting? Hmmm, I'm claiming that you have a natural advantage over me with Native American languages! :) I'm familiar with "hui", but I'm not good with phrases. I only know the words that are in everyday useage here. I can say this, if you visit here one more time you may qualify as Kamaaina!

I'm guessing you have indicated that you are coming here to meet with Vegas users, but I didn't get the message! I feel abandoned...perhaps the group found out I have been shirking my editing responsibilities...

Do you know when you will be here? What do you have planned?
Marcus Marchesseault is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2006, 08:59 AM   #17
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
The V1 outputs 1440 x 1080 4:2:2 at the HDMI output if you're using it for live output.
Post tape/recorded output is processed to 4:2:2 for HDMI output.
D.S.Eagle,
Are you suggesting that if I already have recorded to tape in the field, back in the studio, the tape will unpack itself back into 4:2:2 from 4:2:0 HDV tape?

Also are there viable Laptop ingests for the HDMI signal?
Or do you need a Tower with a card?
Thanks,
J
John Benton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2006, 09:05 AM   #18
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Benton
Are you suggesting that if I already have recorded to tape in the field, back in the studio, the tape will unpack itself back into 4:2:2 from 4:2:0 HDV tape?
This is the same thing that Scott Billups said was happening with the Canon XL H1 over SDI output, but nobody would believe him.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2006, 09:27 AM   #19
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,719
Tapes will always be sort of upconverted when going out any other form of output other than firewire.

What happens is that the 4:2:0 has to pass through a A/D converter. With S-video on a DV camera or component on a HD camera the signal will not have any extra detail compared to 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 but it will be blurred. This means there is no extra precision in the chroma but it isn't as jagged either.

This is why in some ways I still prefer to capture live as component. Analog signals do not work in 1's and 0's but in waveforms so the chroma can become a lot smoother and easier to deal with. There are filters in certain NLE's that do the same sort of thing but that adds to rendering time and not everybody has access to those filters.

I wasn't sure if tape to HDMI would pass through a filter or not since it is pure digital but if Spot says it does then maybe it does.

I have been trying to get a test done for a long time to see how much different capturing Component would be to SDI or now HDMI. I realize analog has some quality issues but in the end I'm not sure if anybody would really notice the difference when played back. I think I might still prefer component to HDMI but HDMI is great since the Intensity card is only $250.00. To get a card that has component and HDMI the cost goes up to $995.00. I will have to see how much the HDMI is filtered. If tape to HDMI would use the same type of upsampling and filtering as the component well then HDMI would be better.
Thomas Smet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2006, 09:55 AM   #20
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockton, UT
Posts: 5,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
This is the same thing that Scott Billups said was happening with the Canon XL H1 over SDI output, but nobody would believe him.
Billups is correct, as am I.

Nothing is gained in the conversion, but nothing is lost, either. It's simply a process that conforms to what the output of the live preview is as well.

It's not "uncompressed" as once it's compressed, it's compressed. It's not like a Zip file. But the color space maybe standardized on output, which is what (to my knowledge) the Canon and V1U offer.

As far as tests of the differences between component out and firewire out for recorded material, this has been performed ad nauseum. Hasn't been tested via HDMI at this point, because there isn't a shipping card that I'm aware of. Announced, but not shipping? Perhaps I'm incorrect on that one.
__________________
Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot
Author, producer, composer
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
http://www.vasst.com
Douglas Spotted Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2006, 10:03 AM   #21
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 844
Hi DSE - off-topic i know (sorry!) but i remember a week or two ago you said that your article on V1 would be expanded from a "quick look" type of thing to a more full review (pending Sony's ok i think). Any further news on that ?

thanks in advance.
Stu Holmes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2007, 06:27 PM   #22
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 163
Hey I'm new to the game here and pardon my lack of knowledge as I'm trying to catch up and learn as fast as possible. With this HDMI output, can you utilize this signal and record straight to a portable laptop or some means other than tape bypassing the further compression that puts it on the tape. I'm not sure if I'm understanding this 100% but if I'm wrong can someone point me out? Thanks a bunch.
Mike Gorski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2007, 07:17 PM   #23
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Gorski View Post
With this HDMI output, can you utilize this signal and record straight to a portable laptop or some means other than tape bypassing the further compression that puts it on the tape.
You can use either the "Intensity" or "Intensity Pro" cards from Black Magic Design to record live output from the V1 via HDMI to a desktop computer thus bypassing the HDV compression. (It's a PCI-Express card, so you can't use it in a laptop.) The Intensity is HDMI I/O only and lists for $249. The new Intensity Pro has HDMI I/O as well as analog I/O and lists for $349. I suppose you could record the HDMI output playing from tape as well, but it will have already taken the quality hit by virtue of being compressed and recorded to tape.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

John
John Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2007, 07:29 PM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,259
Mike, keep searching those old posts and you'll find more info. Check out the cineform forum too, and search on "intensity".

The short story is that yes, there is a workflow from camera to PC via hdmi, it must be live from camera, not from tape, to realize the benefits.

AFAIK, the only solution is:
Camera
HDMI cable to Blackmagic Designs Intensity PCI-X card (about $250).
Capture to BM MJPEG codec, or perhaps better yet, use Cineform Connect HD (now being relabeled/updated to NeoHDV) to compress directly to Cineform digital intermediate and store on a vanilla hard drive.
Edit with some NLE that can use Cineform (used to be only PC, Vegas & Premiere, but now cineform tools can compress to or convert to a QT wrapper for FCP).

One significant gotcha' in this otherwise very interesting workflow: HDMI capture is only available on a PC with expansion slots ie. a desktop machine, not laptop. Meaning AC power, separate monitor/KB/mouse, big heavy box, perhaps noisy, etc. Perhaps there will be a laptop HDMI capture solution in the future.
Seth Bloombaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2007, 09:51 PM   #25
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 163
Hey thanks for all the quick replies. It seems like every few days I lean more to the V1 over the A1. Still in the research process but I thank everyone for the patience and willing to respond to my noob questions. Thanks again.
Mike Gorski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2007, 04:07 AM   #26
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum View Post
One significant gotcha' in this otherwise very interesting workflow: HDMI capture is only available on a PC with expansion slots ie. a desktop machine, not laptop. Meaning AC power, separate monitor/KB/mouse, big heavy box, perhaps noisy, etc. Perhaps there will be a laptop HDMI capture solution in the future.
But you can buy 10metre HDMI cables. Is there a degradation in quality over a 10metre cable? If it's a digital signal nothing can interfere with it right? The way it leaves the camera is the way it arrives at the computer, yes? Otherwise it doesn't arrive at all. I think...

So you can conceivably have a 10m gap between camera and your PC... I hope so because that's my grand plan with my V1 and my soon to be bought terabytes of hard drive space...
__________________
John Hewat
Mammoth Media Productions
John Hewat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2007, 05:38 AM   #27
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: yeovil uk
Posts: 72
does the picture from my fx-7 to my plasma pioneer look the same with hdmi and component because the set has 1280x768 pixels.chris
Chris Hull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2007, 09:10 AM   #28
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 96
Douglas said it all

HDMI is a budget connectivity solution. It was designed for consumer grade equipment, but a lot of people have discovered that it does a darn good job. You can buy an Intensity card from Black Magic for about $250 that will ingest your HDV tapes via HDMI. That same card will feed a HD display that can be purchased from Wal-Mart.

Is this the best way to go? Well....no. But we recently bought a Panasonic HD monitor that cost nearly $4000. The Intensity card and the HD display from Wal-Mart will cost closer to $1000. The cheap solution won't have all of the bells and whistles, but it will do an adequate job.

Just another example of the acceptance of HDMI.....AJA's new Io HD box does include HDMI in/out connections. Since the Io HD will connect to a MacPro laptop via a Firewire cable, that means you don't have to have a desktop computer with PCI slots.

Last edited by Tim Allison; April 26th, 2007 at 09:26 AM. Reason: correct a mistake
Tim Allison is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony HVR-V1 / HDR-FX7

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:57 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network